cjw said:
Monday, August 13, 2007 #

Is anyone going to address the price question that was raised? Is it untrue that Orrin had tried on several occasions to get them to lower the prices as indicated in the lawsuit? Also, where is it noted in the rules of conduct about the fact that "stacking" is not allowed?

NR said:
Monday, August 13, 2007 #

I hope that the pricing is worked on. I've been in this for 2 years and have had almost nonexistent customer sales! Price to value is cited in every case. People love the products when they try them, but they will never purchase them from me because of the cost - even the "IBO Pricing"!!!

William said:
Monday, August 13, 2007 #

Cheers RL! Thank you for your time and effort invested in communicating with us.

What I'd like your honest thoughts on - Is TEAM just being made an example form, or will other malpractices like using a business forum to preach religion or endorce political parties - be eliminated by quixtar? Beleive it or not those things happen I do not know if you are aware.  Many people require IBOs to start with some "system kit".

I sincerely hope these are issues that will be addressed across ALL IBOs (not just TEAM) during this transformation process.  I'm an active growing IBO that's expecting to be in platinum qualification soon.  Looking forward to the new era!

Wayne Morris/Connie Browatzke said:
Monday, August 13, 2007 #

Once again we hear from Quixtar and there is no mention of lower prices to potential customers, to whom we are supposed to retail products.Are we to understand that the delay of the Choices Catalogue might be a Solution? As a purchaser of diapers for my grandson, I had to purchase a bag of diapers at a retail outlet and spent $4.00 less than my cost as an IBO. The pricing is pricing us right out of the market. We love the products and the Business BUT we also need to make a living and a future. Quixtar, are you going to be there for all of us, not just Platinums and above??????

Wayne said:
Monday, August 13, 2007 #

It is obvious that there are two strong opinions out there, but, are there not three real issues? The two you mention above PLUS, the product pricing issue,that has us all a bit upset at Team. I sure wish someone at Quixtar had the guts to address the price issue.

Bob said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

How can you be fired if you are an independent business owner?  I work with a guy who is a Quixtar IBO.  He is always harping on how you can not succeed if you work for someone else.  You have to be your own boss.  I don't see that if Quixtar can set your rules and be able to fire you.  Weren't these some of the most successful people in the business?  How are you your own boss, if you have someone tell you what to do, what to sell, and can fire you?  To be a PR person for this company, now known as Amway must be a tough job.  Good luck bro.

.

Editor's Note: You are correct, you cannot be fired from this business. Instead, the contract you hold with this company can be terminated if you do not abide by rules, which is what happened in the case of these 15 business leaders. It's similar if you own a franchise like McDonald's ... you are free to run your own franchised business but you have to maintain the franchisor's brand and business practices -- or lose your franchise rights.

cjw said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

Regarding Bob's post, I own my own traditional business, and believe me, if I don't abide by the laws of the state and others, we will be put out of business.  I agree with the Editor's note.

I do have a question though, where in the rules of conduct does is talk about the proper way to sponsor and that "stacking" is not allowed. Does your Sponsor have to be the person showing you the plan?

Beryl Nichols said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

Kia: Right On!  The KEY issue here is the rules.  You MUST follow the rules or leave, just like in any professional organization.  That is why we must have rules for OUR protection.  This is not a willy-nilly business folks!

Amway/Quixtar manufactured products are price competitive.  If you or a customer uses the product and you are not satisfied, even with the price--return that product at the company's expense.  You see, price is only an issue in the absence of value.

I come from the photographic industry and always sold the best equipment, sometimes three times the price of the nearest competitor. If my customers were not "quality minded" people, most likely they couldn't justify the price.

In this business, I once had a lady that used windshield washer fluid to clean EVERTHING, because it cleaned good enough for her and it was cheap.

I would rather sell quality and service any day.

Keep the Faith!!!

*** & Dorrene Yost said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

Regarding pricing

As 38 year IBOs we remember many years ago Rich DeVos said," I'd rather explain price once than make excuses about quality forever". A very true comment.

Quixtar/Amway do offer us quality product at competive price when concentration is factored in. We have customers we have served for many many years.

William said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

Beryl Nichols, you say, "The KEY issue here is the rules.  You MUST follow the rules or leave, just like in any professional organization."

That is true, and yet I haven't seen ONE blogger speak out against imposing religious beleifs on IBOs, of disparaging those of certain political parties.  Or of the fact that for example, system kits are required with startups as a matter of teaching.  Are these not abuses of Quixtar rules too? Yet they are happening regularly outside of the recent IBOships that departed.

I do not know if this will be reformed or not (no employee has shed light yet).

The problem is if we IBOs not helped by the corporation then we all get painted with the same brush.

Kia, will we see any reform on what can or cannot be said on BSMs as part of the Transformation process?

It's your rules being broken.

ibofightback said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

William - I've been speaking out about the religion and politic issues on various websites for years. I actually have a post on that ready to go on my website that has been delayed due the TEAM blowup. It will be up later this week. It's another major issue the corp. has to crack down on.

Bill&Debbie Johnson said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

This needs to be resolved outside of the courts. I am personally asking for the leaders on both sides to have a coffee together (preferably KAHVE) and iron out these differences. We need to circle the wagons and stick together on this one. This is not only important to the company but it is critical to all future IBOs.Its not about price its about wealth and freedom. If you want price; work a job, cut coupons, shop at walmart, and live on a stinking pension.

Collin Tambor said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

Wow! Thanks to Quixtar on this. I used to be an IBO. My former platinum is a member of TEAM and tried to do damage control. He told me so if I "saw anything on it" I would know the truth. lol.

I can say this. If Quixtar continues to start enforcing all of its rules, I will be coming back.

Getting rid of Team members is a great first step. Now, politics, religion, and mandatory purchases of 'kits', AS WELL AS mandatory purchases of 'tools' can all be next.

Thanks again.

p.s. Hope my former Platinum deosn't mind me looking at the other side of thibgs too.

Steve said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

Wait a second!  Time out!  Espere un segundo!  Quixtar...you're contacting platinums and "inviting them to continue their Quixtar businesses, and seeking assurances they will build ethical businesses within Quixtar's rules."  I've heard about you calling platinums and asking them if they're with Team or if they're with Quixtar.  What kind of question is that?    Are you trying to be like Wyatt Earp, or something?  That's like asking Randy Moss, "Hey, you're either with the Raiders, or with the NFL, which one is it, punk?"   "Uhhhh, both...maybe?"  If this is all about "Rules," then how can you terminate someone if they're not in violation.  I feel like I'm in Germany watching you gas my neighbors hoping I'm not next.  

Are you suggesting that anyone that builds with the Team system is breaking the Quixtar rules.  Which rules and why now?  

Editor's Note: I think, perhaps, that the question being asked of Team Platinums is whether they plan to continue their Quixtar businesses or if they plan to join Orrin, Chris and others in the new business they allegedly are creating. Whatever business that might be is not part of Quixtar (i.e., the NFL). -- RL  

freedom101 said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

Offended by outspoken opinionated business leaders? You think that religious and political opinions should be silenced in the business arena? Maybe laws should be passed to keep them from pushing their beliefs?

On one occasion I was offended by a religious statement made by my up line. Then I quickly remembered, we live in a free country! I applaud all who appreciate and exercise their freedoms responsibly. Be outspoken! Have courage! I am proud of my up line and aspire to be as outspoken and opinionated as they are.

Ken Smith said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

I work hard for my money.  I would love to support my brother in Quixtar but I have to look out for my family.  I have yet to buy a Quixtar product that is better than what I can get at WalMart for a much better price.  My brother has been "building his business" for over 10 years.  He works hard at it and while I admire his blind faith in Quixtar and the pursuit of his dreams, he just keeps spinning his wheels going nowhere.  

He did tell me that based on what has happened over the last few weeks he has decided not to renew his membership.  Price really is an issue.  I'm sorry but that is the true reality.  Quixtar products are not worth the money that is being charged.  I have yet to meet any distributor who has made decent money marketing amway products.

LisBette said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

Quixtar's position appears to be that Team leaders broke the rules in their building methods. I wish you would consider two things:

First, I am a long-time member of Team, and I have been present for practically every Team teaching session directed at Platinums and above. Woodward and Brady have ALWAYS told us to register new IBOs in compliance with Quixtar rules. After Quixtar agreed to allow Team depth building, it was on condition that before we register a new IBO, he or she must meet their potential sponsor and both parties agree to the relationship.  This is confirmed by the BSMAA that is signed by both parties and sent in to Quixtar.

I am sure some IBOs have taken shortcuts in this--looking back, I think I have done so once or twice. Does that mean our leaders should be terminated? That would be like saying my driver's training instructor should lose his driver's license because I was caught speeding.

Second, and my bigger concern, is the changing of the rules themselves. Quixtar has the right to make the rules whatever they want. But what is alarming is when the rules are changed without the consent of the IBOAI, and when they are changed so drastically.

For just one example, when I first started in the business, there was no non-compete clause in the Business Compendium.  Now there is. Shame on me for not reading the updated version every year at renewal. But even if I did read it, do I walk away from the business I built for five or ten years because some contract language has changed?

The problem here is that the rules are arbitrary. Apparently no consideration is given to the terms an IBO originally agreed to. So although I think I'm building a secure business because the corporation has been around for almost fifty years, in fact there is no security at all.

Beryl Nichols said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

Hey Ken,

Try going to ANY store, WalMart, Kmart, Sam's, anywhere and purchase a Nutrilite product, Artistry product or ANY core-line Amway product. IMPOSSIBLE.  Now, take a tour of the Amway/Quixtar factories and meet the people that are employed there.  Examine how the people work for your success as well as their own.  They protect the integrity and quality of the product as well as the integrity of the business and it has been that way for almost 50 years. Rich said it in a tape called Try or Cry.  "Either try this business and give it your best or shut up about it!" That was many years ago.  People have been going over these same issues for years!  Like my next door neighbor, Jim.  I asked Jim if I could borrow his chain saw and he told me he was "making soup". Well Jim, what does making soup have to do with me borrowing your chain saw?  Well, really nothing, but if I don't want to loan you my chain saw, "one excuse is as good as another, isn't it?" There will always be people "making soup".  You can lower the pricing to where the price issue goes away but guess what? The quality goes away with it.  You can't have it both ways.  You can't build any business on cheap junk.

Alot of people had a problem recently with their pets dying because of the ingredients in the "cheap food" they were feeding them.  Not one problem was associated with NUTRIPET! Because Nutrilite doesn't use crap to make the product cheaper!

The integrity of the product has always been such that I don't question it, because ALL the research has already been done for me!

A product (anybody's product) does not have to be "the best" to sell well.  It just has to be 10% DIFFERENT! If you want cheap stuff, it is surely available, but not in our core-line products thank God!

And William...How can ANYONE impose their religious beliefs on another UNWILLING person?  My ears and feet belong to ME.  I Shut my ears and walk away if I don't like what is being said. I simply impose my IBO rights.  I make an independent decision to not participate. It is my responsiblity to myself to do what is right.  In this business we must decide to follow the Rules of Conduct and quit trying to find a "hook" to keep from doing what is right.

Keep the Faith----when the ripples go away we can settle down and wait for the next WAVE to hit.  That is the People business folks!  I love it!!

Beryl Nichols said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

LisBette,

The Team leaders were not terminated willy-nilly.  Quixtar worked with them in an attempt to convince the leaders that they MUST follow their rules.  Team chose to not come into line with the rules so they had to leave.  This action by Quixtar was the CHOICE of the leadership of TEAM.

It may be a hard pill to swallow but the "security" in this business comes from our ability to follow the rules.  Things change in business....Sure, read the contract language yearly.

There is not one IBO that owns Quixtar or Amway.  We find the customers and sell the products.  Quixtar does ALL the rest.  They do an overall excellent job, in my humble opinion.

Keep the Faith!!!

YankeeIBO said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

William et al in regards to religion and politics,

One of the requirements for being able to profit from the new QBI's is accreditation. To be accredited, an organization has to abide by the Q* Communication Platform (see this at www.quixtaraccreditation.com). These issues are very clearly addressed in that piece, and that's where the reform will come from. I think everyone is now well aware of how serious the corp is about this reformation of the business and its reputation!

GF said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

Did you ever wonder why the eight long standing IBOAI Board members who were terminated late Friday were still on the IBOAI Board?   According to an Alticor corporate communication posted on their web blog site August 10th, 2007 @ 3:59 PM titled “Just Go TEAM,” Alticor has been dealing with these individuals for serious rules violations for months.

If the rules violation allegations are true and the IBOAI Board is a critical part of the internal business operation, then management has been ineffective and the board is out of control, an Enron like situation.  Any board member who violates board rules should be suspended immediately.

If the rules violation allegations are true but the IBOAI Board is not a critical part of the internal business operation and rules violators are allowed to stay on the Board, then what is the purpose of the Board?  Why have an IBOAI Board at all?  

If the allegations are not true, then, why is Alticor/Quixtar/Amway willing to spend lots of money for a media campaign and legal battle?  What is the real purpose of this?  By legally silencing TEAM is something being covered up?  

Does this concern any of you?

FYI, three of the people terminated were on the Ethics Committee, their pictures are still on the IBOAI web site.

Concerned IBO said:
Thursday, August 16, 2007 #

Setting The Record Straight http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24

OK Quixtar/IBOAI... enough of the run around, factual spinning and general planned distraction away from the issues!  It is extremely interesting, despite the 1000s of official and unofficial releases you’ve authored, solicited and even paid for, that you have yet to answer, address or even acknowledge the serious allegations set forth in the class action lawsuit filed by the oh-so-terrible Mighty 15.

Could it be that there is dangerous truth there?!  All you have done is shoot the messengers with personal attacks which according to Logic 101 says that you are afraid to confront the actual issues.  It’s your only option since… YOU CANNOT SHOOT THE MESSAGE!  Because it is true!

LOGIC 101- An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument's proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument. The personal attack is a debate tactic or means of avoiding discussion of the relevance or truthfulness the person's statement. This line of "reasoning" is fallacious because the attack is directed at the person making the claim and not the claim itself. The truth value of a claim is independent of the person making the claim.

Don’t give us some runaround about legal privilege or confidentiality or whatever weak excuses Quixtar is so good at creating… give us the facts to support why the massive allegations against you are not true.  Here is your chance.

But you won’t find it.  There is no evidence to defeat the class action claims.  So, we’ll just have to expect that Quixtar will now mount a smear campaign against Ron Simmons personally because he is Setting The Record Straight with the truth that he himself was involved in directly.  Go ahead Quixtar, try to discredit a man with years of successful experience as a multi-million dollar financial consultant and years of experience in Quixtar and years of experience in dealing with YOU.  Be careful, unless the actual people who were present at that meeting speak- they have no standing!  Oh, wait… I guess that doesn’t matter since we’re not dealing with actual truth.  We’re dealing with Quixtar truth- true is whatever you pay for it to be.

Concerned IBO said:
Thursday, August 16, 2007 #

Is Quixtar the present day Hotel California?

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave?  and neither can the business YOU built nor the business owners YOU helped.

Quixtar is walking a thin line between an independent contractor and employee relationship.  Any more control and the Unemployment Office is going to be busy.

Beryl Nichols said:
Thursday, August 16, 2007 #

Concerned (no name)IBO:

An important point, that you fail to acknowledge.  Alticor/Amway/Quixtar are privately owned entities and not publicly traded...Thank God!!!  That status gives the Corporations certain liberties in running the company the way they see fit, regardless of your knowledge of Latin, sir.  There is only one President Bush or President Clinton, etc.  As President he is called upon to make intelligent decisions in running the government.  We can wave all the signs we want but HE is still President and WE are not!

You won't ever take this compnay down any lower than the two families that started it 48 years ago.  And from those two families WE can bring it all back with integrity, honesty, credibility, hard work, and following the dadgum rules, which seems to be an impossibility for those that were terminated.  Cause and effect says we cause our own effects....and you have proof of that!

By the way, how can anyone put any credence in words spoken by a person who won't use his name?  Where I come from they call that type of person a troublemaker.

Susan Costanza said:
Friday, August 17, 2007 #

As a long time IBO and defender of Quixtar/Amway, I am getting nervous. Am I the only one who thinks things at corporate seem to be melting down?  It's almost as if they are trying to deliberately implode! Change the name to Amway, jump into controversial litigation, terminate IBOs without cause, make threatening phone calls to other IBOs without cause, and post tacky blogs.

And I don't want to hear about how those bad old IBOs were breaking the rules!  Those bad old IBOs followed Quixtar rules to the letter. Any of you who don't believe that, well, your turn will come!

Beryl Nichols said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

Susan Costanza:  No need to worry!  Don't major on the minors. Trust the fact that this is "not their first rodeo" at the Corporations. The Corporation has the "reserves" at hand, meaning employees, money, legal staff to take charge of this bump in the road.  Unfortunately, a great deal of the corp. profits are going to spent defending what is right and honest according to Quixtar Rules of Conduct.  Fortunately, Wrong is still wrong, no matter how many lawsuits are filed.  If they followed Quixtar rules to the letter they would not be terminated.  Millions of dollars down the tubes, to save the ones that follow the rules and keep the integrity in the opportunity.

Quixtar has attempted to get these leaders to fall into line and follow the rules, for years. I guess they felt that considering the volume they bring would protect them from breaking the "stacking" rules.  Well, they have to know that it is more than the money.  Money will never make Wrong Right.  There is not enough money in world to do that.

Keep the Faith

YankeeIBO said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

It looks like another TEAM member has gotten a taste of the true colors of the people they have been defending. This is from the "Just Go" thread, and words can't express how saddened I am for what this IBO is experiencing:

From the "just Go" thread--#755:

Concerned_IBO Says:

August 17th, 2007 at 4:11 pm

"I have experienced personally what the corporation is trying to protect all IBOs from by not removing the non-competition clause. My upline diamond, using his credibility because of his pin and the edification of the system, is recruiting the leaders in my organization and preparing them for when they leave. They are told to hold on until September 1 because they can get the incentive bonus money from the corporation and still walk away with all the IBOs they can recruit in that time frame. We showed the plan to all the leaders they are taking and our work of over 10 years will follow unscrupulous people such as these. To say that the whole team leadership is ethical is to desregard the facts and actions of IBOs such as my upline. Since we can’t prove they are doing anything, all we are left with is waiting for September when my upline will walk away with more than 1000 IBOs in our group and our livelihood."

Liz Vollmar said:
Monday, August 20, 2007 #

SUPPORT MATERIALS:Honestly, we have never made much money in our business, but this much I can tell you. The products never changed our life!!! The support materials and the examples of our leaders have made all the difference for us-because we were teachable.I am blessed to say I have a secure marriage and my husband doubled his income in his job because of the leadership skills he has attained from our heroes.

NOT DISCLOSING NAME OF THE SUPPLIER RIGHT AWAY: If we would have been approached with retailing/selling Quixtar/Amway first (like we're going to be doing soon)we & many others would have never been open, but because we were professionally approached with a business idea first and the supplier later, we and many others joined. I'm sure Amway/Quixtar has benefited in a huge way for years from this approach. You're going to lose a lot of good people this way.

LEGAL ISSUES: Why is it that Quixtar terminated those IBOS only after they resigned from IBOAI? You're both to blame, if there was misconduct.

SITTING ON THE FENCE: There were many IBOs that weren't sure what they were going to do, but Quixtar tipped the scale in TEAMS favor because of their tactics.Who is your PR there?It's as though you are trying to make the Quixtar/Amway fail (internal sabatoge)

Addie said:
Friday, August 24, 2007 #

I tire of reading all the rediculous comments written by people trying to save a company that has absolutely no credibility.

Put an end to the nonsense and put Team at the helm of the Amway's resurrection from the dead.  To do anything less is rediculous and a waste of your time and energy.  

Tex said:
Saturday, August 25, 2007 #

Addie,

.

That makes as much sense as putting the crazies in charge of the asylum. Which actually makes sense if you ARE one of them.

Beryl Nichols said:
Monday, August 27, 2007 #

Addie,

You are showing your hiney in public!!

Half a century in business in every state in the U.S. and some 80 countries around the world doing over 6 Billion in business. That's dead?  

With a "key stroke", your product shows up in two days and Orrin, Chris and Team had nothing to do with any of that.  That's your business!!!  Work it.

Josh Marihugh said:
Tuesday, February 19, 2008 #

Hi guys...

trailing in on the end of a discussion...too busy building my business (and making a retail profit, no less) to really keep up.

I'm amazed at the lengths that some people will go to avoid using the word Quixtar when referring to our business opportunity. One thing I've always appreciated about the "system" (that is, the business support team that my wife and I are a part of) is that the Quixtar name is ALWAYS mentioned during the plan presentation. In addition, the speaker often will give a brief history of the company. It really does help add some credibility.

Tool purchases have always been promoted, but we were told that they are OPTIONAL, not required.

And with our business support team, I can have business around the country (my sponsor is several hours away in one direction, and my upline Platinum and higher are all several more hours in the other direction) without having to travel all over the place. That's the beauty of the business support system.

I am a proud member of the LTD team, and also privileged to be a Quixtar-affiliated IBO. The system wouldn't be important without the supplier; the supplier wouldn't be as easy to "sell" without the system.