Quixtar.com - Official Site of Quixtar Inc.
QBOB vs. SA4400
Tuesday, August 14, 2007

In response to a lot of questions about "stacking" and the customized version of the SA4400 that Team was permitted to use, Todd Krause just posted to Adatudes a very complete statement that should help all of you better understand some of the issues the company has been addressing with Team.

One of the other issues we've been dealing with is positioning of the Quixtar business.  As I've stated in Real Quixtar Blog before, one of the biggest issues former IBOs cite when leaving the business is the deception they experienced when prospected. Too many people leave the Quixtar business because they were "conned" into it by IBOs who would find many twisty ways to avoid explaining they were joining Quixtar. Yes, you may also be joining a system, but the system exists (or should) to train one how to do the Quixtar business. And, as I've pointed out here and elsewhere, in this information age it is pretty pointless to deny something that is just a click away on Google. That includes the strong connections between Quixtar and sister-company Amway.

The SA4400 has always been required by Quixtar rules to be provided to prospects when shown the Plan. As of Sept. 1, it's gone.  There will be no SA4400 going forward.  Instead, we have QBOB -- the Quixtar Business Opportunity Brochure.  This is the document IBOs will be required to share with their prospects when discussing the opportunity.  It addresses how IBOs make money in this business, it discusses the products they will sell, and it talks about the support they can expect from the company and their IBO organization. It clearly states that you are joining the Quixtar business.  And unlike the SA4400 it is not a boring, number-filled, disclosure-laden document that makes prospects' eyes glaze over. Instead, it is colorful, marketing-oriented, and designed to make the Quixtar business opportunity as appealing as possible.

Also, a team is working on a redesign of Quixtar.com and that includes a new Quixtar business opportunity section that mirrors the content found in the QBOB.

The QBOB was created with the intent that IBO organizations could make some slight customizations, particularly the inclusion of their training system's name and logo as well as contact information. For the most part, however, the primary language of the QBOB will be unaltered regardless of the IBO organization.  As a result, there will be a more consistent experience on the part of prospects when provided information about the Quixtar business opportunity.

This document was reviewed by IBOAI and their comments were considered in the final version that will be shared in the next few weeks. It is the intent of the company to make these brochures inexpensive for IBOs, at just $2.50 per five-pack. Free brochures are being sent out as we launch the new QBOB era, and going forward all new IBOs will receive a free five-pack after they've registered.  Also, each time an IBO sponsors three new IBOs, they will receive another free five-pack in the mail. 

Orrin and friends were aware the QBOB was coming, just as they were aware of the company's stance on stacking. They also knew that new money was being added to Quixtar's business incentives, and that new products are being launched starting in September with a retail focus, and that Quixtar would be providing new training to help IBOs sell these products. They also knew about alot of other investments the company is making to help IBOs at all levels in this business be more profitable.

It is because I know these IBOs knew all these things that I am disappointed they made the decision to leave at this time. Yes, Quixtar terminated their contracts, but it was because of the choice they made. When all of these products and programs hit this fall, I think IBOs who remain committed to the company and this business will be glad of the choice they made.



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Comments

Inside Quixtar said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

Today you'll see a post by Todd Krause over at Ada-tudes addressing the differences between stacking

Kim said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

Thanks for the insight Kia. I can't wait to move past this "gang of 8" and get to the changes that they knew about and we now know about.

G_W said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

This is a very exciting time for all Q/A IBO's – thanks for the info Kia! I continue to be delighted with the information sharing, transformational changes, and the punishment of rule-breakers… it's painful now, but I think it indicates a brighter future!

ken shinn said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

I was in the business in the 90's thru the change to quixtar and did not renew in 2006 losing my downline so that I could find a better support upline and I was in the so-called best at one time--looked at both and decided to get in with team-they grew great because of great leaders-You have not built nor tried to build a business -You are with the company-nobody in the company that makes these decisions has tried to build the business--The gang of 8 out of 22 on the iboai board is not just the gang of 8 like you say--On World wide dreambuilders -the leader's site Greg Duncan and Ron Puryear -they are quoting the leaders of Team (as of Aug 13th)and Legacy and the others who were brave enough to take a leap of faith and stand up and say Prices need to compete with Walmart on the top 100 products and the incentives need to be spread out instead of across the top--also Amway does not have an attractive name and the knock on door direct sales that it started with is hard to shake and people who are busy with two parnets working-see that image and do not jump to be with me in business thinkingthey are selling Amway! I will bet 75% of the leaders of the distributor (IBO) group wish that Woodwards proposals would hve been accepted.

The corp should go back to him and adopt his ideas and truly compete with Walmart!

rdknyvr said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

Robin, is it possible to consider having a b&w/gray scale pdf of the Quixtar Business Opportunity Brochure on the Quixtar site that could be downloaded and printed even more inexpensively? Just a thought...  This is great news, by the way.

.

And thanks for the thoughtful, considerate, respectful-of-other-human beings way you phrased and worded your post. You are doing excellent work, much appreciated. :)

 .

Editor's Note:  Thank you for your comments and the reminder, rdknyvr.  The QBOB will be available as a download although I believe IBOs will want to use the brochure we provide due to its professional presentation of the opportunity. RL

Greg said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

Robin,

Will there be any mention of the "Transformation" to Amway in the new "QBOB". Also, I think it would be a mistake to allow for customization of any kind for the different systems. Didn't A/Q learn their lesson with the Woodward issue?

Giving systems these special perks is an invitaion to abuse and arrogance. We all know that the various systems want to appear exclusive and seperate from the parent corp and special perks just feed into this.

We are all in the same business. There is no need to give systems special treatment. This will be a very big mistake in my opion. It also give systems an unfair advantage over the growing number of IBO's that don't want to be part of a system. IBO's need to know the truth. There is no disadvantage getting support from the corp.

Allowing customization is a bad start to the transformation and plunges A/Q futher down the  slippery slop of appeasing systems. It sounds like the IBOAI is calling the shots again. This is a conflict of interest issue and past history should indicate to the corp that letting the IBOAI have this much influence is not wise.

You can't change the stripes on a zebra!  

.

Editor's Note:  There will be a disclosure within the 12-page brochure that states: "When you register, you'll become a Quixtar IBO. By 2009, there will be unprecedented improvements to all aspects of this business opportunity. As a result, the company's North American business opportunity will be rebranded to align with the global Amway brand."

.

As for customization, it will simply allow for logo treatments to be added.  The "contact information" customization is open to all IBOs.

Steve said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

What are the significant changes that you are referring to?

TWS said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

Thank you Robin for the info. I think its very important to continue posts like this and Todd's in the midst of what is happeining with TEAM & Co. I have been very impressed and at peace with you and all the "opportunity zone" bloggers with your professionalism, unbiased and transparent approach.

With that said, I'm not sure who to address this concern to, but the Alticor Media Blog post, "Just Go, TEAM" has me stunned. There has been a time or two that some of my comments get edited to meet policy, but that post was very uncharacteristic of what I've seen posted from those at the company. Unprofessional, smearing, and childish. As you probaly know, the "Fur is Flying" about that post and I can't say that I disagree. I'm not at all agreeing with the business practices of certain organizations and think that Quixtar did the right thing in acting on those offenses, but to post something so careless. Now is not the time to be fueling any fires and portraying an image other than integrity and professionalism.

I will probably post at Alticor media my thoghts too, but I'll admit my respect for the author is definetly in question.

Jeffrey said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

To Ken Shinn: If you want Wal-Mart prices, then I would suggest that you set up a retail website and become an affiliate of walmart.com through linkshare.com and promote it so you can move products at Wal-Mart prices. Then you can thank your lucky stars when someone comes on your site to buy their junk products.

rdknyvr said:
Tuesday, August 14, 2007 #

Robin, OK, at 12 pages the QBOB IS very accommodatingly priced, at $0.50 each ($2.50 for a 5-pack). Delighted with this!!! :)

By the way, I hope your staff aren't giving in to doom and gloom feelings... no doubt in my mind after reading through ALL the blog entries here and at Alticor and IBOFightBack's site http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/  (one should get some sort of a medal!!!) that Quixtar is going to do just fine.

I'm also predicting (to myself) that with the new products launching this fall, Quixtar will not see any net drop in revenue due to the few who decide to leave.

Keep smiling... :)

LisBette said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

Robin, I noticed in your post you mentioned new products being launched in September "with a retail focus."  What on earth does that mean? Alticor/Amway/Quixtar and loyalists seem to be saying that IBOs should be retailing ALL of the products.  Is it possibly that maybe the corporation knows how difficult that is with the current product lineup?

 

Editor's Note: Well said. Our current products also have retail customers, but the new lines that will be available will have broader appeal. -- RL

Finnish_girl said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

I am very thankful that Orrin and Chris are fighting this fight, and have for years.  I appreciate all of the effort they are putting in to help us build the best business possible.

Quixtar prices make the products nearly impossible for the average person to retail.  It is very disappointing that Quixtar ignored its Diamonds' concerns regarding this issue for so long.

If Quixtar is so happy to see Orrin go and is so sure his alleged MLM will fail, then why won't Quixtar allow Team IBOs to leave?  What would Quixtar have to lose?  Just something to think about...

Rykel said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

This was first posted on my AwesomeIBO™ Blog at http://ibo21.blogspot.com.

Hi Kia, reading your blog since the days of your early anonymity has always been rewarding. I am NOT part of TEAM but I would like to say that:

1. There IS a vast difference between Selling Amway/Quixtar products through the 3S, and duplicating your business franchise-style through leveraging on a System.

2. It is GREAT that Amway/Quixtar will now acknowledges the existence of the Systems in a leave-behind brochure. For too many years, Amway/Quixtar materials has either failed to mention or glossed over this fact and not given enough public education about the Systems. Yet this is what makes Amway/Quixtar stay ahead of the competition - the System leaders. Without Dexter Yager, Bill Britt and other great System lords (hehe), where would Amway/Quixtar be today? Please implement this idea in the whole world!

While I will not get to use the QBOB brochure because I am operating in Singapore, here are some further suggestions that you might find useful:

1.    Have group pictures of the various products categorically displayed. (sort of like a mini catalog/display, without the wordings!) Much like those A5-size catalogs you find in other MLMs. (I think you call it Pocket Size in the States.) This way, those who want to travel light, and especially those who are building with System tools, need not lug a gigantic, heavy, 1000-item catalog around the meetings. Think Japanese...

2.    Pictures of the Facilities, especially that Google Earth pic of Ada HQ, NHI/COH, Farms, inside pictures of the factories, Scientists, Patents etc. Not to mention other Alticor assets such as Interleukin, Fulton, Laura Mercier and Peter Island. Oh, the Amway/Alticor planes too, if you still have them.   : )

This should be very useful to every IBO because it gives confidence to the audience about the stability and track record of the company.

3.    Graphically show BOTH the 642 and Depth Building strategies, so that either groups of IBOs can offer the choice to their prospects, and then there will be no dispute about stacking and such.

4.    Pictures of where Amway/Quixtar is going, such as Nutrigenomics, space travel with PV etc.

In other words, make it like a mini "Amway/Quixtar Overview" type of booklet with 4 sections - History, Facilities, Products, Partners (IBOs), Strategies, Future... better yet, why not provide a companion DVD as well that can be used around the world? (Amway Australia has something very similar DVD called "Break Free" DVD/Brochure set.)

Thanks for listening!

ibofightback said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

Robin - a number of TEAM IBOs are apparently being told that the Quixtar to Amway name change has been moved forward to September 1st this year.

As many are nervous about the effect of the name change, this seems like a calculated rumour to have them support TEAM.

Can Quixtar categorically and clearly deny this rumour?

 

Editor's Note:  That is false. The company never planned to announce the rebranding because the intent always has been that the company would be transformed first.  Commenters are correct that there is no point in a name change at this point, which is why we've stated that we expect this to be 18-24 months away.  - RL

Ohio IBO said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

With all these changes, reminds me of Avon!

Why not just go to door to door and say "Amway calling!"

This is The Information age and 21st century folks.  The sentimental nostalgia some of you have for the Amway name will be short lived when prospects start laughing at you, unless your intent is just to market a few products and use yourself.  Build a large organization for financial independence?  Never happen with that name!

T Cotta said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

First of all, thanks for the opportunity to discuss all of this.  I am really interested in getting to the bottom of the stacking issue and the IBOs not knowing they are signing up to Quixtar.  So...

Comments to the article above:

1.  Doesn't everyone sign a contract that has "Quixtar" right on the top and everywhere else?  It's hard to believe people don't know they are signing up to

Quixtar.  This new brochure doesn't seem to mention Quixtar more than the contract they sign.

2.  "Doc" (from Legacy moved to TEAM 1year ago) from the Ada-tudes "A View From The Top" blog provided the registration instructions issued by TEAM which states:

#1- "Please provide all prospects with the SA-440 prior to registration" etc..

#2- "The new IBO must have actual knowledge of their immediate sponsor.  Furthermore, the new IBO needs to be aware of the distinction between their upline mentor and their sponsor.  This clarification is very important in the registration process"

What I don't understand is why Orrin and friends would leave because of Quixtar addressing the stacking issue if they have it addressed right in their registration instructions.  If these are the registration instructions issued by TEAM then the stacking accusation doesn't make sense.  Robin, have you seen TEAM's registration instructions?  From this document it seems that TEAM is not promoting stacking.  Please clear this up for me Robin. Thanks!  

Brad said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

To Finnish_girl, you said: "If Quixtar is so happy to see Orrin go and is so sure his alleged MLM will fail, then why won't Quixtar allow Team IBOs to leave?  What would Quixtar have to lose?  Just something to think about..."

Because, the anti-compete rules, recently updated and passed through IBOAI, btw, would require Quixtar to go against its own rules.  That can't happen if they want to enforce any of them.  In addition, maybe, just maybe, Quixtar cares about the IBOs that aren't strong in profit or structure.  With past knowledge of other MLMs failing Quixtar doesn't want to see someone promised the world and have it shattered with no real way to get back what they lost...  something to think about :-)

pete said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

I have greatly appreciated the TEAM and its leadership.  These are great men and women that I am proud to be apart of.  

I would encourage all parties to act respectfully of all involved.

ken shinn said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

If I were within a dollar of a 7 dollar product  or within 2 dolars of a 15 dollar basic commodity--I would promote buying online and save time for the slight difference in cost--but I cannot say it --I will bet Woodward and over half of the board was trying to say this--like I said world wide dreambuilders and britt world wide were two of the fastest growing in the nineties and then woodward and brady since quixtar-these groups combined are two thirds of the IBO board-I have heard some of their leaders lament (not on stage) about the prices! Officially over 30 % have resigned... so far!

Ralph said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

One question...Why is it all of the information regarding QBOB, and the Amway name change are only listed in blogs and nothing has gone out on the quixtar.com website, or in the mail.  I only came across the blog sites by accident.  They are not publicly known about by the majority of IBO's

Bizman said:
Wednesday, August 15, 2007 #

T Cotta, just because the instructions say to do thus and so (the fine print) doesn't mean that the leaders will actually follow on.  Putting it in print makes it legal, but like many other rules, this may not be enforced.

Elise said:
Thursday, August 16, 2007 #

I have to say, after reading some other communications regarding all of this (Alticor's blog, etc) this particular post here is the best written one I've seen, as well as professional sounding. The information presented here was very informative too. Thank you.

T Cotta said:
Thursday, August 16, 2007 #

Bizman,

Doc indicated that these were his registration instructions for signing up a new IBO, not fine print in a contract.  He said he has been with TEAM for a year and has been following this process.  Robin never responded but I came to the conclusion that Quixtar is making an issue about stacking that doesn't exist.  I'm pretty convinced now on that subject. I'm now interested in the other claim that TEAM is using unauthorized business materials.  Aren't all the independent business materials unauthorized or does Quixtar authorize some of the other group's materials?  Robin?  Thanks for the feedback bizman.

 

Editor's Note:  Please know that I'm not claiming any particular individual was involved in stacking. All I know is that too many complaints were coming from Team IBOs about who was listed as their upline. In the end, Team's leaders told us they weren't interested in working on this problem and would rather just leave to start their own business. I agree that if stacking wasn't occurring in Team it should not have been an issue warranting termination. But it was happening, and Chris and Orrin made the decision that they did not want to address it. -- RL

Kramer said:
Thursday, August 16, 2007 #

"Editor's Note:  Please know that I'm not claiming any particular individual was involved in stacking. All I know is that too many complaints were coming from Team IBOs about who was listed as their upline. In the end, Team's leaders told us they weren't interested in working on this problem and would rather just leave to start their own business. I agree that if stacking wasn't occurring in Team it should not have been an issue warranting termination. But it was happening, and Chris and Orrin made the decision that they did not want to address it. -- RL"

I find that VERY interesting...not sure how any complaints could be coming in when there is a page in the Team  registration pack that the new IBO must sign, acknowledging who their sponsor is and that they have personally met or agree to work with that person.  This page has been in the pack for months...how can you say Orrin and Chris "didn't want to address it"?  It sounds to me like they already did--a long time ago!  Let's stick to the facts--the products are overpriced and no one wants to be associated with a company called Amway.  Yikes.

T Cotta said:
Thursday, August 16, 2007 #

Thanks for responding Robin.  I have to agree with Kramer though-it does sound like they did address it and that they weren't teaching stacking which was what Mr. Krause says in his stacking blog.  I've read in these blogs that non-TEAM IBOs say they have stacked from time to time, most times inadvertantly. I just feel that claiming that these guys  deliberately taught it is a way other thing in my mind.  Getting sponsor/sponsoree consent doesn't seem too hard to do and it sounds like there was paperwork to cover this (according to Kramer.) Just doesn't make sense.   Does anyone have a copy of the TEAM registration instructions?  But on to the next thing..  Can anyone clear up the unauthorized materials claim?  Are other support orgs materials authorized by Quixtar?  If so which ones?  Thanks again guys.  This is a great blog with lots of good input.  BTW, Quixtar just announced a 5% increase in shipping!!  Ouch!

ticked off said:
Thursday, August 16, 2007 #

Overpriced products that people don't want to pay for at retail or even IBO cost, name change to Amway, 5% increase in shipping....this is really convincing me to stay with Quixtar.

Josh said:
Friday, August 17, 2007 #

5% Is a modest increase. Vendors in my traditional business are tacking on much more than 5%.  Under the guise of rising fuel costs.  It is a nationwide epidemic, so 5% is fair in my book.  

.

Kia, on a totally separate issue.  Ya'll need to stop the idiot who is posting on Alticor blog.  While I was ok with a bit of passion on the "Just Go Team" thread, this second one is an absolute OUTRAGE!!  Especially coming from the corp.

Who is the author or authors over there.  Good God, they are damaging their's and our reputation.

Get that stuff in check dude!!

Ohio IBO said:
Friday, August 17, 2007 #

T Cotta ---

I would be happy to provide you the pdf file which is the TEAM registration packet. A comprehensive packet which includes a SA-440, BSMAA, the Quixtar relationship,and documents covering who their sponsor and upline platinum is.I think this will dispel the rumors & misinformation about the TEAM registration process.The question is, how do I get your e-mail address?

Founders Platinum said:
Friday, August 17, 2007 #

Here's where I'm a bit confused. Part of the issue Q* is claiming was use of unauthorized BSM, yet if my memory is right, at least some of the LOA's involved in this were acredited by the PDAP. How does that work ??

Editor's Note:  One organization was accredited but lost that accreditation when it plugged into the Team system.  RL

T Cotta said:
Friday, August 17, 2007 #

Oh, now I'm really confused.  Only one organization was accredited, does that mean authorized by Quixtar?  Are any independent BSMs authorized by Quixtar?  No one knows the answer to this question.  Do you Robin?  Thanks!

Editor's Note:  Check out www.quixtaraccreditation.com for more information about accredited IBO organizations.  There are currently three with others working toward accreditation. RL

rdknyvr said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

Robin, credit where credit is due. After advance purchasing a ticket to our Training System's Spring Leadership held in June, at the last minute I was unable to attend due to family matters. I couriered the ticket back to the Training System's office with a cover note, and even though the ticket said "no refund" on the back, they not only refunded the amount but included the estimated courier cost -- I had not asked for that.

ibofightback said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

T Cotta - Quixtar Accreditation is a relatively new system where a BSM company/organization can agree to match certain guidelines in return for receiving official Quixtar approval - and various associated goodies.

Separately to this, individual BSM (tools) can be submitted for approval to the corporation. In general anything to be used for "prospecting","plan", or "product" needs to have corp. approval.

Personally I think this is too restrictive, on the corp. should instead give explicit guidelines as to what cannot be said, and reserve the right to ask material  not be used.

team ibo said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

Revised 05.07.07

Team Registration Procedures

Pre Registration instructions:

1. Please provide all prospects with the SA-4400 prior to registration. The SA-4400 is also known as the Independent Business Ownership Plan.

2. It is imperative that the potential IBO receive the SA-4400 prior to registration.

This can be accomplished by either distributing the Part 2 pack (which has the form pre-packaged) or by personally handing the form to the prospect.

3. The new IBO must have actual knowledge of their immediate sponsor.

Furthermore, the new IBO needs to be aware of the distinction between their upline mentor and their sponsor. This clarification is very important in the registration process.

In an effort to support Team IBOs, the necessary registration forms have been compiled in one PDF that can be downloaded from the Team site. The forms are; and should be used as follows:

1. Quixtar Registration Form

a. This form is used to register your new prospect with Quixtar. It is a contract that will provide your prospect with an IBO number; gain them access to Quixtar’s website, and allow them to qualify for bonuses based on the distribution of products.

b. The IBO must forward the signed W07 document to the upline platinum.

i. It is important that the information on theW07 form, under the section “Sponsoring IBO Information” is correct.

ii. The sponsoring IBO is the “connecting IBO” not necessarily the “plan shower.”

1. Example:

O = Up line (Possible Plan Shower)

O

O

O

O = Sponsoring IBO (Connecting IBO)

O = NEW IBO

2. Therefore, the information to include on the W07 under the section “Sponsoring IBO Information” needs to be the person that the new IBO is directly going under. They are the “connecting IBO” or “Sponsoring IBO” as shown above.

c. The platinum will log onto the Quixtar website and register the new person online.

d. The platinum will receive from Quixtar and forward to the sponsor __________________________

team ibo said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

IBO Registration Information

Below is some information you may find helpful as you hear different terminology referenced in business materials or conversations with your Business Support Team.

Your Upline Platinum:

Your Upline Platinum is the individual Independent Business Owner (IBO) who is directly responsible for the Business Support Team helping you build your business. They handle registrations for new IBOs, as well as other functions related to helping you build a successful business.

NAME:

EMAIL:

Your Upline Sponsor:

Your Sponsor is the Independent Business Owner (IBO) immediately above you in the Line of Sponsorship. You will have been introduced to your Sponsor either in person, over the phone or through email prior to being registered at the Quixtar website for the business.

NAME:

EMAIL:

Note: The person that introduced you to the business and your sponsor may be different individuals. In most cases, your sponsor will be in the same organization as the individual that showed you the plan.

The role of Quixtar: The business opportunity and compensation plan offering quality products through a state-of-the art website.

Website: www.quixtar.com Login ID: Password:

(You may change password once logged on)

The role of Team: A leadership development organization that provides professional development and training to help build my Quixtar business.

Website: www.the-team.biz Login ID: Password:

(You may change password once logged on)

Your Name: ____________________________________ IBO#: ________________

□ I acknowledge that I know and agree to work with my upline sponsor named above.

I also acknowledge that I have seen the Quixtar IBO Compensation Plan also known as form SA4400. It was included in one of the packets of information I received from my

Sponsor/Mentor prior to my registration.

T Cotta said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

Ok, so Quixtar accreditation is fairly new and there are 3 currently accredited with others working toward it.  So, that means that there are many others not accredited.  Are the non-accredited organizations allowed to use their materials in promoting the Quixtar business or not?  If they are then TEAM wouldn't be breaking any rules by using their BSMs right?   I'm thinking this point is not a valid one on Quixtars part either.  So the only real thing left is that Orrin and friends wanted to leave.  Quixtar should have let them leave....quietly. Hope this all works out for the best for everyone.   Thanks all!

Editor's Note: As someone else already has pointed out, PDAP provides consumers (i.e., prospects) greater confidence from the knowledge that they have received Quixtar accreditation. Any materials used by other organizations with their prospects also must be approved by the Company, while those used with existing IBOs must abide with Rules. My understanding is that Team was asked to align their teachings with Quixtar's Rules, but declined. -- RL

Rykel said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

OhioIBO, I am interested in the pdf pack. In fact, could you also forward me a pdf copy of the TEAM Manual, if available? I am very keen in this whole issue, as I am affiliated with Network21, where the same Team Building strategy (NOT Stacking) is employed.

You may add me to your MSN/Yahoo/Google/Skype/Gizmo. My ID is rykel98(MSN: at Hot Mail . com). My ICQ is 22768140. OR, you can leave an email through my Blog at http://ibo21.blogspot.com.

Ron Simmons said:
Sunday, August 19, 2007 #

Robin  -

I appreciate your taking the time to post the informaiton regarding the SA4400,the new Q-Bob brouchure, and other topics.  Unfortunately your statements are either not exactly in line with the facts or they are not fully representative of the entire situation.  Here are some things that need to be corrected that I personally know because I was personally involved in the conversations.

SA 4400 - This brochure is required to be shown to a prospect before signing the application form. Rule 8.3.4 states that it must be shown to the prospect prior to registration.  It does not say that it must be given to the prospect when showing the plan.  Please do not misstate the facts.

Team and other organizations had their own SA 4400 which was and is approved by the Company (until Sept 1 when everyone goes to the Q-Bob) and their SA 4400 clearly illustrated their business building method which focused more on depth than width although width is an important component when appropriately applied.

I agree that the new Q-Bob has great graphics and is appealing to the eye but it does much more than tell people they are in Quixtar it tells them that they are in Amway - even though the company said this would be gradually introduced over the next 18 - 24 months.  Come on Robyn tell the whole story please.

Also Robyn this brochure was probably shown to the IBOAI but their opinions were NOT considered and they were NOT involved in the development of the brochure.  This was a company brochure and the IBOAI was never asked for their approval.  When you state that the IBOAI opinions were solicited on this you make people think they had extensive participation and had given their approval - this is not true and even if you did not know it someone there did.

I have not seen any of the products you talk about.  Are you talking about the food and protein bars that are smaller but cost the same price or more.  Just because there are new products does not mean they are more competitively priced or that they are the types of products that the field needs to best get a new IBO going and committed to the business.  Again you want people to think by you saying "new" products that the company is meeting what Orrin, Randy and others were asking for.  Again Robyn your spin hat is swirling too fast.

Finally, when I sat in the meeting between Orrin, Randy et al and the Company I did not see you their so please don't speak about what went on.  What happened was that Randy and Orrin said they had tried hard to get the company to listen to them about things that needed to change to make the business more viable going forward for the new IBO but the Company had decided to go in a different direction (which Randy and Orrin said they respected their right to do so) so they could not continue.  While they had not prepared a written letter, this was a statement to the top Quixtar executives that they were resigning.  Sure the Company wants to say they terminated them so they can look like the "big dog" but the facts are that Orrin, Randy and Chris had already quit.  I know that may be painful for you or others at the company to here but I was there and I know the situation.  We were told by the company to take a break and give them a separation proposal (if they had not resigned by then why were we told to come up with the terms) and during this time the company decided to come back and not discuss in good faith but to give Orrin and Chris termination letters and chose to not even address Randy and treated him like he was not even in the room.

At some point in time Robyn (over 5 years of trying to get changes on product pricing implemented by some of these guys)a person has to realize that there are things that will not be changed so you have to decide if you want to be a part of it or not - they chose not.

Please Robyn, don't spin the facts or report half truths, you are in a position where people expect to be able to believe you.  The facts are what they are - everyone is a big boy and girl so let them decide.

Thanks for your time.

Ron

 

Editor's Note: Thanks for your post, Ron. You're right, I was not in the room for those discussions. I'm merely relaying what has been shared with me by those who were. Also, I probably do get it slightly wrong from time to time and rely upon the blog discussion and the input of those who truly know the facts to add their notes so that we can all arrive at truth.

Regarding QBOB: IBOAI reviewed concept and we proceeded.  They then provided feedback on the actual developed piece, which we took into consideration. There were changes made as a result of that feedback. There is a one-line disclosure that those being prospected into Quixtar today should expect a rebranding by 2009 that brings the North American business into alignment with the global Amway business. I have already shared that earlier in this blog.

Regarding Products: There are two new lines of product coming developed for specific audiences. More than just a few bars.  

Again, I appreciate you coming in here to share your viewpoint (much better than those who have come in copying your entire post from the "free the IBO" blog into comments here. I haven't published them since we have provided many links into that site already).  -- RL

Spartan (A member of TEAM Independace) said:
Sunday, August 19, 2007 #

Ron Simmons,

Thanks for having the COURAGE to set the record strait.  I know Orrin, Chris and others are not allowed to talk right now, but I am thankful that the FREEDOM OF SPEACH that I help defend every day is not being tossed to the way side.  It is because of the men of Character and Integrity like yourself that TEAM will be the largest corporation in the world!  For others reading this post, read 'Made in America' and see if you notice any thing similar in what Sam Walton did and what TEAM is now doing.  Again, Ron, Thanks for setting the record strait.

-A Soldier by trade, a TEAM member by choice.

YankeeIBO said:
Sunday, August 19, 2007 #

Ron,

It's so good of you to join us here, thank you for your input! Unfortunately, even the people who were there can't seem to agree on what happened when.

This from Robert Dickie's own site.

August 11, 2007

Amicable Separation Ignored

More information about the meeting with Quixtar on Aug 9th:

A meeting with Quixtar had been scheduled for August 9th to discuss open issues with the Team. Before the meeting occurred, there was an emergency IBOAI meeting called to address IBO concerns about the condition of the business and the business transformation. After the IBOAI meeting, roughly a third of the board members felt so strongly about what had been learned that we couldn’t go forward and continue, in good faith, to represent the business. We had been assured numerous times that if we had a problem going forward, we should approach Quixtar/Alticor’s lead counsel to discuss terms of departure.

When we approached Quixtar/Alticor, Mike McCormick acted as the spokesperson for the group. The group felt confident that Mike, because of his long relationship with Alticor and Quixtar legal, would be the most able to communicate our concerns in a win-win fashion. Mike served as legal counsel for Randy Haugen and Don Wilson, and others, who were defendants in the Procter & Gamble and other litigations. He worked side-by-side with Quixtar/Alticor legal in these proceedings.

After we made it clear we were there to discuss an amicable separation, and after Quixtar/Alticor had immediately rejected our request to allow all Quixtar IBOs a choice of whether they wanted to move forward with the new direction or not, McCormick presented to them the nine point proposal listed below:

Conceptual Proposal

1. Peaceful exit

2. Joint positive communication – no disparagement

3. IBOs currently within the Team system will have until December 31, 2007 to resign from Quixtar and sit out from any other MLM for a period of 60 days. After December 31, 2007, Team system IBOs will revert to Quixtar rules in effect at that time.

4. Bonuses will be prorated to the resignation date, including any year end bonuses.

5. Any LOA that is currently not affiliated with the Team system will not be approached or communicated with by any Team representative. Quixtar can prepare a statement that Team personnel/leadership will state if approached by any IBO not covered by this agreement.

6. Team will continue to operate their current training system.

7. No legal action of any kind against Team or affiliated IBOs will be instituted by Alticor or any of its subsidiaries, employees or representatives. Also, Alticor/Quixtar will not use any of its connections with any federal, state or local governmental agencies to cause harm to Team.

8. No communication or otherwise forecasting to current Quixtar IBOs that Team’s methods are unlawful or legally questionable.

9. Neither side to communicate with any press entity regarding the separation beyond an agreed upon written statement.

After having the proposal for over an hour and a half, Quixtar’s attorneys returned to the room. With no discussion or open dialogue whatsoever, they presented termination papers.

At this point we were forced to request that the courts compel Quixtar/Alticor to give IBOs the choice that should have been offered voluntarily.

August 11, 2007

Amicable Separation Ignored

More information about the meeting with Quixtar on Aug 9th:

A meeting with Quixtar had been scheduled for August 9th to discuss open issues with the Team. Before the meeting occurred, there was an emergency IBOAI meeting called to address IBO concerns about the condition of the business and the business transformation. After the IBOAI meeting, roughly a third of the board members felt so strongly about what had been learned that we couldn’t go forward and continue, in good faith, to represent the business. We had been assured numerous times that if we had a problem going forward, we should approach Quixtar/Alticor’s lead counsel to discuss terms of departure.

When we approached Quixtar/Alticor, Mike McCormick acted as the spokesperson for the group. The group felt confident that Mike, because of his long relationship with Alticor and Quixtar legal, would be the most able to communicate our concerns in a win-win fashion. Mike served as legal counsel for Randy Haugen and Don Wilson, and others, who were defendants in the Procter & Gamble and other litigations. He worked side-by-side with Quixtar/Alticor legal in these proceedings.

After we made it clear we were there to discuss an amicable separation, and after Quixtar/Alticor had immediately rejected our request to allow all Quixtar IBOs a choice of whether they wanted to move forward with the new direction or not, McCormick presented to them the nine point proposal listed below:

Conceptual Proposal

1. Peaceful exit

2. Joint positive communication – no disparagement

3. IBOs currently within the Team system will have until December 31, 2007 to resign from Quixtar and sit out from any other MLM for a period of 60 days. After December 31, 2007, Team system IBOs will revert to Quixtar rules in effect at that time.

4. Bonuses will be prorated to the resignation date, including any year end bonuses.

5. Any LOA that is currently not affiliated with the Team system will not be approached or communicated with by any Team representative. Quixtar can prepare a statement that Team personnel/leadership will state if approached by any IBO not covered by this agreement.

6. Team will continue to operate their current training system.

7. No legal action of any kind against Team or affiliated IBOs will be instituted by Alticor or any of its subsidiaries, employees or representatives. Also, Alticor/Quixtar will not use any of its connections with any federal, state or local governmental agencies to cause harm to Team.

8. No communication or otherwise forecasting to current Quixtar IBOs that Team’s methods are unlawful or legally questionable.

9. Neither side to communicate with any press entity regarding the separation beyond an agreed upon written statement.

After having the proposal for over an hour and a half, Quixtar’s attorneys returned to the room. With no discussion or open dialogue whatsoever, they presented termination papers.

At this point we were forced to request that the courts compel Quixtar/Alticor to give IBOs the choice that should have been offered voluntarily.

August 11, 2007

Amicable Separation Ignored

More information about the meeting with Quixtar on Aug 9th:

A meeting with Quixtar had been scheduled for August 9th to discuss open issues with the Team. Before the meeting occurred, there was an emergency IBOAI meeting called to address IBO concerns about the condition of the business and the business transformation. After the IBOAI meeting, roughly a third of the board members felt so strongly about what had been learned that we couldn’t go forward and continue, in good faith, to represent the business. We had been assured numerous times that if we had a problem going forward, we should approach Quixtar/Alticor’s lead counsel to discuss terms of departure.

When we approached Quixtar/Alticor, Mike McCormick acted as the spokesperson for the group. The group felt confident that Mike, because of his long relationship with Alticor and Quixtar legal, would be the most able to communicate our concerns in a win-win fashion. Mike served as legal counsel for Randy Haugen and Don Wilson, and others, who were defendants in the Procter & Gamble and other litigations. He worked side-by-side with Quixtar/Alticor legal in these proceedings.

After we made it clear we were there to discuss an amicable separation, and after Quixtar/Alticor had immediately rejected our request to allow all Quixtar IBOs a choice of whether they wanted to move forward with the new direction or not, McCormick presented to them the nine point proposal listed below:

Conceptual Proposal

1. Peaceful exit

2. Joint positive communication – no disparagement

3. IBOs currently within the Team system will have until December 31, 2007 to resign from Quixtar and sit out from any other MLM for a period of 60 days. After December 31, 2007, Team system IBOs will revert to Quixtar rules in effect at that time.

4. Bonuses will be prorated to the resignation date, including any year end bonuses.

5. Any LOA that is currently not affiliated with the Team system will not be approached or communicated with by any Team representative. Quixtar can prepare a statement that Team personnel/leadership will state if approached by any IBO not covered by this agreement.

6. Team will continue to operate their current training system.

7. No legal action of any kind against Team or affiliated IBOs will be instituted by Alticor or any of its subsidiaries, employees or representatives. Also, Alticor/Quixtar will not use any of its connections with any federal, state or local governmental agencies to cause harm to Team.

8. No communication or otherwise forecasting to current Quixtar IBOs that Team’s methods are unlawful or legally questionable.

9. Neither side to communicate with any press entity regarding the separation beyond an agreed upon written statement.

After having the proposal for over an hour and a half, Quixtar’s attorneys returned to the room. With no discussion or open dialogue whatsoever, they presented termination papers.

At this point we were forced to request that the courts compel Quixtar/Alticor to give IBOs the choice that should have been offered voluntarily.

And both versions don't match up with the timeline on freetheibo.com.

Jackie Dangl said:
Sunday, August 19, 2007 #

Quixtar recently posted a What's New article on the QBOB including a link to a PDF, if you want a preview- it's on Advance Order (sku 40-0710 for English and 40-0710S for Spanish) https://www.quixtar.com/products/product.aspx?itemno=400710.  Also, emails were sent to all qualified Platinums and above in late July/early August communicating about the new QBOB.

rdknyvr said:
Monday, August 20, 2007 #

Robin, I just looked at the new Quixtar Opportunity Brochure pdf for Korean and Chinese on the US site... wonderful stuff!!! I'm laughing my head off looking at the choice of visuals you guys in Communications picked, given some of my previous (critical/assertive) comments. It looks like you got a home run with this, but I can't read Korean or Chinese. Could you soon post the pdf of the English and Spanish versions now on advance order?

I'm especially intrigued by what appear to be visual references to the Quixtar U training site, including the module, 'Introduction to Selling and the Balanced Business Model'.

Thanks for including a (small) shot of the Gensona/Interleukin DNA tests products... saved me writing a letter to Mr. T. Curran!!! :) lol

Suggestion: perhaps mail this asap to all TEAM IBOs... the Amway connection is so clear, so modest and also SO INOFFENSIVE... one would really have to be completely other-agenda-minded to not appreciate your efforts to position this as helpfully as possible. I hope our friends and colleage IBOs in TEAM will at least give it a fair consideration.

Thanks again for this!!!

Ron Simmons said:
Monday, August 20, 2007 #

Yankee IBO -

I am not sure what you are referring to in your post about Bob Dickie's account of the meeting and mine not matching up?

The proposal that Bob is talking about the Mike McCormick presented was after we took a break as requested by Quixtar and emailed them our proposal during lunch which they had requested.

Maybe I am missing something in your post so if you would please clarify I will be happy to further explain if necessary.

Thanks.

Ron Simmons said:
Monday, August 20, 2007 #

Robin -

Thanks for your response.  The version of the Q-Bob that was shown to me in mid July which I think was in final galley proof started out by saying the DeVos and VanAndel families were the founders of Amway.  Later in the brochure it made the statement that I think you are talking about regarding switching the name back to Amway.  

Leading with Amway (maybe that changed) seemed inappropriate to me when we were told we would have time to phase this news into the field over the next 18 - 24 months.  I agree that this would have been difficult to do as once the "horse is out of the barn" we might as well just ride it but in my opinion the field was never really given the choice.

Given the retention rates in this type of business and in Quixtar specifically it can be stated with relative certainty that over 80% of Quixtar IBOs were not in Amway and then selected Quixtar in 1999.  These people have only been in Quixtar and were told by the company and the field leadership that Quixtar was not Amway - this new change is an EXTREMELY hard pill to swallow for most people.

In my opinion people should be given the choice to continue on our not on the Amway train and if they decide to get off should be free agents, to do what they choose without threat of retribution from "Big Brother" who changed the "deal" on them.

Have a good one Robin.

Tex said:
Monday, August 20, 2007 #

Speaking of accuracy....

.

Ron,

.

I didn't think the IBOAI Board had approval authority. They can provide comments and recommendations, but final approval authority rests with A/Q.

.

Also, is the name change a bigger factor in TEAM's departure than one would be led to believe based on both the TEAM and Quixtar public releases?

.

Spartan,

.

You're a Soldier by choice as well, there is no draft.

.

Also, since when should it take courage to tell the truth?

Frustrated Ed said:
Tuesday, August 21, 2007 #

I have read the court documents (I suggest you do also), and frankly the cat is out of the bag.  

I don't agree with the blanket statement in the TEAM law suit that our product cannot be sold.  That's a matter of personal effort, and there are several opportunities within the product line that are very attractive to consumers, e.g. Nutrilite (you get what you pay for), XS, Artistry, Ribbon program, etc.  I was in the old Amway business when all we had was consumables, and the Store for More, alarms and fire extinguishers.  Because of the concentration of the detergent line it was competitive at that time, and the big discount chains (e.g. WalMart didn't exist).  What attracted me back to the Qx biz is the ecommerce factor which removed unscrupulous/unreliable downline IBOs from the picture because you no longer had to cover their challenges in cash flow.  As a matter of fact the reason I got out the first time was because of an embezzeling upline Pearl (now equivalent to a Sapphire) that was using downline IBO cash flow for personal cash flow not related to the business.  You should never have LOC backordered...

However, I do agree with TEAM on the real issues, e.g  product price, and non-compete. What disheartens me about all of this is the apparent leeway that is available from the corporation due to the rather artificial and unrealistic built-in profit margins for the corp family which appear on the surface to be significant and non-negotiable, which is one of Team's gripes.  I have to agree with them on that one.  Lower prices means higher volumes which will eventually take care of the reduction in profit back to the corp family.  

Like TEAM, I also don't think the 6-month no compete rule is a good idea either.  Here's an idea...make the opportunity so good that Qx/Amway doesn't have to worry about competition. Let the opportunity compete on its own merit.

Until all of this is worked out I'm not sure if I can enthusiastically and sincerely continue to make the effort to recruit new IBOs just to have to explain what is readily available via Google.  IT's hard enough to build without all of this.

Qx/Amway would have been much better off to have let TEAM have their way and go.  However, that didn't happen, so hopefully those of us with a dream of a big business and a better life will benefit from all of this.  I'm not holding my breath.

Waiting to see what happens now that the cat is out of the bag....

Bridgett said:
Tuesday, August 21, 2007 #

Simple math:

.

The NEW protein bars are:

5.40 PV/15.60 BV/$15.60 Cost/$19.50 Retail/25% Markup

.

Bridgettized, the bars would be:

4.33 PV/12.50 BV/$12.50 Cost/$14.99 Retail/20% Markup

.

If I have a bar that is cost-competitive at a $1.50 a bar (still slightly higher than our most expensive competition at $1.43/bar, but not 40% higher, which they currently are), I will be able to sell (at retail) more AND have repeat sales.

.

If our products were a mere 20% less, we would only have to move a mere 25% more, in order to equal the same revenue $$.

.

I can sell 10 times (that would be 900% more) if the pricing were right.

.

Robin, please, who can I talk to that has SOME authority on how products are priced?

.

You’re the PR guy. Who’s the I-set-the-pricing Corp person?

Ron Simmons said:
Tuesday, August 21, 2007 #

IBOAI does not have approval authority and that is the point.  The IBOAI does not have ANY authority but most IBOs don't know that.  I sure did not until a couple of years ago.  One of the reasons we got in this business was because it had a board that could protect us from the company that might have conflicting objectives that the field.

What I want the company to quit doing as quit saying that the IBOAI reviewed something or it was discussed with the IBOAI.  To the average IBO this reads "approved".  

I am not saying they have to run anything by the IBOAI - I just want them to quit implying that the IBOAI was in agreement with something.

My Board member friends (okay xIBOAI board members) tell me that the Board gave a 100% no confidence vote to the company over the name change.  Never saw that on this blog, the IBOAI blog or any other company communication.  

Jake Barnett said:
Tuesday, August 21, 2007 #

I for one did NOT sign up for Amway.  Was in before QX and during the switch over, and did not want to get back in.  I signed up in TEAM because of the Team approach of building depth and the leadership development.  I grudgingly signed up with QX because I didn't have a choice; QX came with TEAM.  I for one am overjoyed with the idea of leaving QX and especially Amway for a greater, brighter, and more profitable future with TEAM.

Tex said:
Tuesday, August 21, 2007 #

Frustrated Ed,

I agree, let's just ignore the rules and allow TEAM to leave like they want to do.

After all, it's working so well with no enforcing existing law with the 12+ million illegal immigrants that have come into this country.... and I voted for the guy, twice!

MichMan said:
Wednesday, August 22, 2007 #

Ron Simmons stated "the Board gave a 100% no confidence vote to the company over the name change.  Never saw that on this blog, the IBOAI blog or any other company communication."

The IBOAI blog screens all posts and has twice refused to post this comment by me.  

"If the IBOAI exists to represent the IBOs, why are they not representing the 'small fish' IBOs who are caught in between AQ and TEAM?  Amway is in court forcing them out of the business, and the IBOAI is nowhere in sight."

Can anyone imagine the UAW allowing GM to run roughshod over members like this?  

Other than posing for grinning pictures, what good is the IBOAI?

Frank Smithers said:
Wednesday, August 22, 2007 #

My one experience in an IBOAI board meeting: arranged by Quixtar, agenda created by Quixtar, attended by many senior Quixtar representatives. As each agenda item was discussed heads would turn to the senior Quixtar counsel who would give a Caesar-like thumbs up or thumbs down, and that would be the final word on the matter. "Approved by the IBOAI" is corporate window dressing and means little when dealing with a privately-held company.

Frustrated Ed said:
Wednesday, August 22, 2007 #

Tex:

Well...Who knows if the result in terms of negative publicity would have been any different had Qx allowed TEAM to just go quietly?  We'll never know, will we? However, I up until the last week or so have never been on this board, and in fact I didn't really know it existed until I received the Qx News email that TEAM had been terminated.

Qx/Amway:

YOU executives/decision makers seem to be operating in some sort of uneducated vacuum.  I know that's not really true because the IBOAI has been trying to educate you but you aren't willing to LISTEN.

Except for Rich (who may be still calling the shots), have ANY of the corp executives, management, LAWYERS and the moderators on this board EVER successfully built this business to let's say the 1000 PV level?  Do you have a CLUE what it takes?  If not, and you are unwilling to listen to the input from the IBOAI then you are  making decisions that affect all of us, and eventually YOU TOO, based on BAD INFORMATION.  Ignorance is temporary (if you’re willing to learn), however, stupidity is permanent.

From what I understand, the IBOAI UNANIMOUSLY OPPOSED the name change back to AMWAY, but their opposition fell on your deaf ears.   Now the upline diamonds are scampering to keep their businesses together by feverously trying to SPIN the name change as a positive move in advance of the announcement.  We've already started putting the big "A" word into the plan in our Tuesday night opens.  However, you'd be surprised how QUICKLY it's mentioned; almost with the hand over the mouth.  It's at that point where you almost expect people to start heading for the exits.  I remember in the old days in the plan when AMWAY was finally announced, it was the moment of truth where we always used to look around to see the reaction of the prospects.  We didn’t have to worry about that with Quixtar.   I’ve already had prospects who came out to an open meeting who were excited when they left decide against it because they Googled Quixtar and saw all of the traffic on the change back to AMWAY.  They didn’t have a problem with Quixtar, the plan, the products, nothing…just the fact that it’s going back to AMWAY.   And…it was just on the threshold of the announcement in the Grand Rapids news, and I didn’t even really know about it.  The prospects told me!

Some of us who have our upline diamond actually on the IBOAI Board NOW KNOW they are trying to sell us something that even they don't agree with.  They must be getting worried, plus the more the TEAM lawsuit comes to light the more explaining they're gonna have to do.  The more the "A" name comes to light and in the media (the lawsuit will take care of that – I can already see the ousted TEAM guys on Larry King telling their story) it will be interesting to see how the Partner Stores react.  Do you not think that your partners don’t monitor these boards?  I know we often say when somebody questions whether this could be some kind of a scam "Well just look at the business partners we have...There are more accountants and lawyers in there than you can shake a stick at.  Do you think that our partners would even remotely be associated with anything that is not on the level?"  Hmmmm....Credibility once lost (even if it's not justified) is never totally recovered, is it?

Since supposedly the Quixtar name is not as well known as AMWAY (probably for good reasons), then why not spend the $200m on getting the Quixtar name out there, instead of trying to raise the DEAD.

Oh no, I have a better idea….Why not take the $200m out of the artificially inflated prices and the name will take care of itself.  I guess the results of an irrelevant POLITICAL CAMPAIGN (yikes!) have more significance than the voices of those who represent the IBO community who are in the trenches.  Remember US, the ones responsible for your VOLUME??????  If you are unwilling to listen to your IBOs, and now lawyers are in charge, common sense has left the building, putting the business on a slipperly slope into history.  IBO's shouldn't be surprised if they start seeing the exclusive product line start showing up on store shelves at WalMart.  At least they’d be cheaper…

rdknyvr said:
Wednesday, August 22, 2007 #

Ron, give me a break. The IBOAI posted a statement expressing their strong concern on their site within a day or two. It was still posted there until last week... I didn't notice when it was removed... but assuming that the newer news and postings took the "front page' spot on their site. Perhaps it should still be up there... I'll post over there and ask them to put it back up... mayb they will :)

MichMan, if you want UAW-style representation, get a job at your local car plant and join the union. :)

rdknyvr said:
Wednesday, August 22, 2007 #

Jake, I too joined for Quixtar, not Amway. I was shown the plan under the Amway name in the 90's and while I loved the business model, I refused based on the name association. However, when the Quixtar model came along, I registered as soon as I saw it. And while I believe the Quixtar name is much the stronger one to go forward with, I've also grown up a bit and I'm not going to pick up my marbles and go home in a fit of hysteria over it. My personal goals in life are bigger than a name change.

Tex said:
Wednesday, August 22, 2007 #

Ron,

.

Thanks for the clarification.

.

Why didn't the IBOAI Board put something on their site indicating they expressed a differing opinion, rather than the "we were surprised just like you, Mr. Average IBO who we represent?" This brings up a very good question as to the underlying relationship the IBOAI Board and the corp had overall.

.

Why didn't the IBOAI Board start a blog YEARS ago to counter the negative blogs? Even the corp had blogs before the IBOIA Board did, and THEY were late to the game. We know the IBOAI Board was reading and familiar with the negative blogs, I know of at least 2 instances where they sued/threaten to sue statements that were made over relatively minor issues, and made a big deal on the IBOAI site about how they threatened these folks into submission because they can afford to hire more lawyers.  

.

Now, let's hear more about the tool profit questions:

.

1. Why did the tool prices remain high to provide the massive profits for the higher pins, ESPECIALLY since the corp told you not to disclose the amount of profit?

.

2. What did the corp tell you to say instead, if anything?

.

MichMan,

.

The Amway renaming decision occurred prior to the existance of the IBOAI blog. You have a good point about no IBOAI Board members posting on ANY blog or, as far as I know, communicating in ANY way, how they felt about this decision. In fact, I understand there are some sugary sweet voice mail messages that went out regarding this issue, and the topic of no agreeing never came up. Some representation.

.

I have a suggestion how to save $9, don't pay the IBOAI Board, they are not doing their job and they have plenty of tool profits to pay for their costs anyway.    

.

Let's be clear, the IBOAI Board represents their own interests, not the IBO's. If they did, they would have lowered tool prices long ago, they would have been included in the Amway name change discussion, and they would have been communicating with their paying members.  

Greg Ingram said:
Wednesday, August 22, 2007 #

Robin - your note of Aug 16:

Editor's Note:  Please know that I'm not claiming any particular individual was involved in stacking. All I know is that too many complaints were coming from Team IBOs about who was listed as their upline. In the end, Team's leaders told us they weren't interested in working on this problem and would rather just leave to start their own business. I agree that if stacking wasn't occurring in Team it should not have been an issue warranting termination. But it was happening, and Chris and Orrin made the decision that they did not want to address it. -- RL

This is incorrect. The Team has addressed every concern Quixtar has brought to them. For example, initially PV per IBO was lower than average. They implemented the DOT1/STEP program and now the average PV per IBO is HIGHER than the Quixtar average. The "team-depth" concept has been approved by Quixtar and it has been stated that it is not an "illegal" or "unethical" business practice.  The Team registration process in detail. Does this make sense - a new IBO is registered in depth in my organization through the efforts of my upline and I call to Complain!??! That makes no sense. When a new IBO would get in and immediately see "Congrats" email from Quixtar - before they got a chance to get an introduction to the new IBO - they may call Quixtar and make a inquiry. However, Q registers this as a COMPLAINT. Nuts!

See this for more information http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=101

Gary Ingram said:
Wednesday, August 22, 2007 #

Here is a news story from Nov 2004 about the reputation of Alticor. This from WOOD TV NBC affiliate in Grand Rapids MI.

ALTICOR RANKS NEAR BOTTOM OF CORPORATE REPUTATIONS LIST

Ada, November 16, 2004, 12:42 p.m.) Alticor is trying to figure out how it ranked on the bottom of a list for corporate reputations.

Alticor ranked 55th, just below Tyco and Martha Stewart's company in a survey of consumers conducted by Harris Interactive and the Reputation Institute.

A spokesperson for Alticor says the company is looking at the methodology of the study.

One thing those who conducted the survey find odd is the use of the name Alticor.

Alticor says most consumers know Alticor by its other companies, such as Amway and Quixtar. http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?s=2573317

MichMan said:
Thursday, August 23, 2007 #

Robin-  

Corporate lawyers argued yesterday in court that IBOs were "property" of Amway/Quixtar.

If that is true, maybe that statement should also be included in the new QBOB brocure.

What do you think?

MichMan said:
Thursday, August 23, 2007 #

>>> rdknyvr stated:  MichMan, if you want UAW-style representation, get a job at your local car plant and join the union.<<<

Use any anology you wish.  Imagine CPA's were using IRS published materials to figure people's taxes.  Then one day the IRS had the CPA's arrested for following those guidelines.

Wouldn't you expect the associations that represent CPAs to stand up to the IRS and complain?

In this case, the IBOAI refuses to represent the 'small fry' ibos caught in the middle of this fight.  In fact, they sit idly by in the courtroom while A/Q calls them "corporate property."

Im.a.believer said:
Thursday, August 23, 2007 #

Frustrated Ed, you said it very eloquently.  And MichMan--IBOs are the "property" of Q???? Good grief!  I thought IBO stood for INDEPENDENT Business Owner!  Does this mean I can't talk to my friends and family who are in my downline?

Me said:
Thursday, August 23, 2007 #

You say that finding out the "truths" is as easy as going on google, but yet at every function I have been to and on a vast majority of tapes/cds I had listened to, all you (Quixtar and their IBOs) do is discredit these people and their opinions.  Rather than back it up with facts and data, they simply paint these people to be some "dolt" with a keyboard that knows nothing and dismiss them.

It is the self-centered attitude of the IBO that hurts Quixtar's reputation.  The fact that IBO's had to deny relation to Amway, even though they are one in the same, no matter how much you want to deny it.  The products are terrible and delivery times are horrendous, and I am supposed to sell that it is convenient?  When it takes two weeks to send a simple order to Illinois from Michigan?  And pricing?  Not a chance, even on products that are close XS Energy drink, what margin is left to make any money on?  We want to displace Red Bull, but we have to charge 30 cents more, and on top of that, any margin is killed by shipping costs.  So the plan isn't as clear cut as you try to make it, which isn't necessarily my complaint, it is business afterall and business is work.  But more of what I got tired of was the attitudes of the people.  My upline were fantastic, but I couldn't really say that much for the rest.  This vendetta that you all have for the corporate world doesn't really fare well either.  Sort of like the middle child syndrome, feeling abandoned and unattended to or otherwise envious.

Frank Smithers said:
Thursday, August 23, 2007 #

Im.a.believer:

When you say "... who are in MY downline," this is incorrect. It's not YOUR downline, it's Quixtar's. The business relationship is between Quixtar and each IBO, not between upline and downline.