Tex said:
Friday, August 17, 2007 #

Kia,

There are several decades of pent up frustration from millions of former and current IBO's.

For me, it's the basic business model of Amway/Quixtar profits versus tool profits. I didn't realize the tool business was MUCH more profitable for the upline until about 2 years ago AND Amway/Quixtar has known about this since at least far back as 1983 (Rich DeVos "Directly Speaking" recordings, which can be read/listened to on the internet with a simple key word search "DeVos Directly Speaking").

.

We now have TEAM and IBOAI blogs to post to, after their long silence in the blog world was forced to stop. This is MUCH better than any book (although I am reading BrandSimple, which I highly encourage you to read), but some sunshine and ball tossing is a great idea.

Chuck Lia said:
Friday, August 17, 2007 #

Kia,

After reading hundreds of blog posts on multiple blogs over the past few weeks, one thing stands out to me:  Your willingness to express your thoughts on some of the more difficult topics, including the LOA systems/tool issues, and your tone.  

Many of the posts I read on the IBOAI blog and Ada-Tudes are incredibly disappointing as "The Board" and other Q/A leaders more often than not seem unwilling to even discuss some of the more difficult issues, issues that have been the focus of multiple legal squabbles and arbitration hearings.  For the life of me, I don't understand it.  I do appreciate your willingness to step up to the plate when you feel you can respond meaningfully, even if it is only just your honest opinion.  Thanks.

Gary Ingram said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

See from post in OZ about the passing of Helyne Victor: "A change in the Nutrilite marketing plan prompted Jay, Rich, and several others (the Victors and Hansens among them) to form a new distributor organization in 1959 called the American Way Association. It was decided that Rich and Jay would head a sales company that would supply products (Amway), and that the AWA, which is now the Independent Business Owners Association (IBOA) International, would serve as the voice of the distributor network."

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Perhaps the sons forgot how Amway stated in 1959 - with the defections of some very ambitous and previously successful distributors - Rich and Jay....sad

john said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

WAKE UP GUYS(Doug & Steve)! Can you not see the implications of the TOTAL stupidity that is happening in this lawsuit. YOU guys act like LIBERALS who think we are stupid and blind to the TRUTH. Can you not see the parallel to Talk Radio and the Blogs. YOU GUYS  are LOOKING STUPID and EVERYONE but YOU knows it!!!

Its Time to put an end to this! STOP IT NOW BEFORE IBO's DREAMS GET FLUSHED!!!

History will record this and YOU one of two ways. YOU decide NOW. Corporate Crusader who put aside the interests of the Corp. for the IBO, much like the Statue in the Center of Free Enterprise, or GOAT!!!!!!!

david whyte said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

Ditto with what Tex said.

There have been big issues, with high emotions simmering under the radar for a long time now, and the lid has been blown off..... I suspect we will see more action before the year is out as more things come to light.

I vividly remember the last function that I went to when my wife asked a diamond in our upline  if they used the brochure that you are supposed to leave when showing the plan. The diamond snapped back and said it was an employee trying to solve a business PR problem that they don't understand. And although they didn't say it, they strongly implied that it was worthless brochure and that they didn't use it.

Now we were also taught that the corporation was not very helpful  - I once asked why functions run by the corporation were not promoted - in fact often told not to go. The answer because the functions were often negative and blew people out of the business. Now in retrospect this was likely as the orgainsation was systematically violating the rules of conduct so they didn't want IBO's finding this all out.

Now these comments came from big pins, who in this market (I'm not in from the USA) have a large chunk of the business. No wonder there is not transparent communication on these issues....

Amway be careful that you don't continue to dismiss your critics as those who didn't work or didn't commit to it. I could list over a dozen people off the top of my head who like myself poured 5-10 years and upwards of $50 000 (US equivalents) into the business and today have nothing to show for it  in terms of $$ return.

To me a huge part of the issue is that Amway seems to only talk to the top pins, not the people struggling, or people who have once been active now not. Sometimes things can be learnt from the people who didn't succeed , though they worked really hard.

May you have the courage to work through this issues and dig deep enough to find the truth of what is really going on in your distributor organizations.

Apologies for the long comment....      

ken shinn said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

Lets talk about product-Beryl.  I can tell you are an old timer.  Was your Amway North America business growing in 2002?(not tool business)Has it been growing? Woodward was invited to speak at the kingpin alticor keynote speaker due to his BUSINESS PV growth!I have a thousand tapes from Bill Britt Diamonds.  Valuable business building information and yes motivation--Motivation because someone with no education,a forest of ear hair coming out of his ears (and other personal hygiene problems)combined with no mentorship or tool consumption got in Amway. He had black shoes and thin rolled down white socks and went door to door and asked my granny if she wanted to make some money like him! He is God's creature and I am not degrading him as a human being--but his business model is what my granny saw. HELLO Beryl, Hello Quixtar Don't change the name back to the "manufacturing age" of the sixties.  The Business model statistics of the sales and marketing geniuses took the name off in 2001 and went "Global". Why? I am thankful for all of the great sacrifices people like you made.  I went 4000 without much upline help in the 90's and it was unbelievably difficult--- but more difficult because of the shallow legged 6 - 4- 2 build width before depth era! Don't give me the mumbo jumbo-  They make some money off of tools-I am OK with that but they do share it with platinums.  Britt shared it with Emeralds and above.  Let Team leave amicably because it hurts everyone.  ricing and name change from people on our board who are there becuse I am sure they have the most to lose--Alticor Corporate did not listen and are not listening!

Bridgett said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

Robin,

.

Thanks for the Aggregator Page.

.

I've been away for a few days, so this will help.

.

I'll check it out later. Right now, on to more important things, like enjoying a beautiful Saturday with my husband and kids.

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Peace out.

.

:)

Tex said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

Gary,

.

The MLM world is very different, and much more mature today than it was in 1959. The problems with TIF in 2001-2002 probably caused the rule changes in order to protect the Quixtar business from mass defections. If you don't like this rule, blame yourself and your upline for not learning about this rule. Then, quit and join another MLM, which you can do right away if it doesn't compete with Quixtar's products (which I admit include virtually everything, but that is why it is the best MLM, after all), or wait 6 months and then join another MLM that does compete with Quixtar's products. After 2 years, you can even approach known Quixtar (by that time, Amway) IBO's, as long as you don't take advantage of confidential LOS information while doing so.  

.

The rules exist to protect your business, and my business, from harm.

.

Quixtar DID learn from history, that's why there are rules that didn't exist in 1959, or 1999 for that matter.

Tex said:
Saturday, August 18, 2007 #

Chuck,

.

Kia has been a breath of fresh air, and I admit I've pushed him to the limit at least a couple of times. But not out of trying to be nasty, but an honest attempt at getting to the truth, particularly with respect to the tool profit issue.

.

We've talked on the phone, it was a good conversation.  

.

I fully understand things must be done at a pace and sequence that will maximize a positive outcome for Quixtar, and by extension, for the IBO's.

.

However, the pressure must be kept up to ensure the real changes necessary are implemented in a timely manner.

.

I don't mind the some-what "in your face" tone of the adatude and Alticor blogs, sometimes direct language works most effectively. I wish we could have more of it, not less. For instance, I was on the forum http://forums.freetheibo.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=160, and asked the question regarding tool income and was "banned" from this site.

However, prior to being "banned" another interesting response came from Ron Simmons, CEO of Legacy, in which he said the corporation is the one who won't allow tool income to be publicized. This is VERY disturbing.

.

Kia, answer please. I talked with the rules department on one occasion and they indicated it was okay to talk tool profit with prospects (although I don't have any specific information), but when I asked on one of the adatudes boards a couple of months ago, there was no confirming response.

.

If Ron is correct, this casts a VERY dark shadow on Quixtar.

Editor's Note:  I'll have to admit I'm not the rules expert, but my VERY layman's understanding is that you cannot promote to a prospect the potential income they will earn from the tools business. We've had that conversation here in RQB before, with Josh I believe. -- RL

irritated_IBO said:
Sunday, August 19, 2007 #

HA!  "Read a good book"??  Any book I choose is probably "banned" by Quixtar because I bought it at a TEAM function!  That's pretty much what's stated in the ultimatum I was emailed by Quixtar on Friday.

Editor's Note: I believe the email you received asks you not to promote Team BSMs any further as Team no longer is an approved IBO training organization. -- RL

Bridgett said:
Sunday, August 19, 2007 #

I went to the TEAM website

. http://www.the-team.biz/

.

last week when all this insanity started. And my husband and I noticed about how there was no reference to Quixtar or the products on the site.

.

Well tonight, I looked at the website again and the copy had changed! I thought maybe I had lost my mind.

.

So I went to Google and I used the Cache feature, which holds old pages. And sure enough, I saw the original page again.

. http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:pN2zUULBc5YJ:www.the-team.biz/+orrin+woodward&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

The changes:

.

The Product Showcase went from Dale Carnegie’s book How to Win Friends and Influence People, to XS “A Quixtar low-carb exclusive”

.

Their Conquer-Fortify-Domesticate mantra added the word “Quixtar” before the word “products” in the bullet point “Domesticate – Flowing Products Through the Community”

.

Veeeery interesting...

Kevin said:
Sunday, August 19, 2007 #

Thank You Quixtar (and please keep the name) for action.  We have been waiting a long long time for some action. But if you hold one accountable, you have to do it with all.  There should be a complete system review and every system needs to be accredited or they can't do business.  

ibofightback said:
Sunday, August 19, 2007 #

Bridgett, I noticed the same thing about the team website, however the site with Quixtar/XS references is the site that was there a week or so ago. Quite interesting that it has reverted. It may just be the "product showcase" automatically changes products automatically and nothing has actually been touched at all.

Bridgett said:
Sunday, August 19, 2007 #

IBOFB,

The graphic in the middle, the yellow circle thing with the three arrows--that copy changed.

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They added the word “Quixtar” before the word “products” in the bullet point “Domesticate – Flowing Products Through the Community”

.

That wasn't there a week or so ago.

.

The Google Cache is the older version, isn't it?

.

Or are you saying that the current one is the old AND new one, and that the Google Cache one, occurred in between?

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You're on the oomputer more than me, so I defer to you.

.

I can't keep up. :)

Tex said:
Monday, August 20, 2007 #

ibofb,

.

Did you see Robin's August 19th note to irritated_IBO? This clarifies your ridiculous point you have tried to make on numerous occasions.

.

Common sense prevails. Again.

Lynn Louis said:
Tuesday, August 21, 2007 #

In the interest of fairness, why don't you include www.freetheibo.com for info on these events?

West, IBO said:
Tuesday, August 21, 2007 #

Robin,

Is there a date/time that we (as Non-Team IBOs) can expect direct answers from a representative of the corp to answer some of the questions that were raised in some of the recent "letters" from former/terminated IBOs (like Goetschel and Newton). We've attempted to contact our Sales/Marketing rep, but have not received a call back.  We'd appreciate clarifiaction on several of the items that were mentioned.  What other ways can we seek clarification on these items?

Editor's Note:  http://adatudes.opportunityzone.com/2007/08/20/Statement.aspx

Tex said:
Wednesday, August 22, 2007 #

Lynn,

In the interest of fairness, the freetheibo forum wouldn't "ban" me for having a different opinion and asking for some facts.

MGA said:
Thursday, August 23, 2007 #

"Heading into the weekend there doesn't seem to be a slowdown in the pace of communications. I hope some of you out there do take the opportunity to step out into the sunshine, toss a ball, or maybe read a good book.  ;-)"

Nice sentiment, and a lot easier to do when you're an employee.

Frustrated Ed said:
Friday, August 24, 2007 #

Judge rules for Quixtar

Updated: Aug 24, 2007 11:18 AM EDT

Judge Paul Sullivan in court, August 23, 2007

GRAND RAPIDS -- Judge Paul Sullivan ruled in favor of Quixtar in three lawsuits involving a group of distributors.

24 Hour News 8 will have complete details as soon as possible.

Ron Simmons said:
Saturday, August 25, 2007 #

Robin -

Good evening.  Your Aggregator Page states it is accurate and up to date information regarding Team and Quixtar yet you have not posted any of the Court rulings that went against Quixtar - including a Federal Court ruling in Texas.

Of course you have the right for the Aggregator Page to just be a location that tells the Quixtar side of the story and the positive things for Q but if you decide to do this then please tell your readers that it is not ALL the facts.

I await your response.

Tex said:
Tuesday, August 28, 2007 #

Ron,

You can post that information here. If it is lengthy, post a link. This isn't freetheibo, where they "ban" you for not agreeing with the "Orrin says" game, or not allowing links.

ibofightback said:
Wednesday, August 29, 2007 #

Robin,

On the Alticor blog a (TEAM?) poster claims -

It is understood by me and others that along with the name change from Quixtar to Amway, Amway will also being doing away with partner stores and affiliates. Does this bother anyone besides me?

Are you able to confirm or deny this?

ibofightback said:
Friday, August 31, 2007 #

no comment on the partner stores rumour Robin?

Editor's Note:  Sorry IBOFB for not responding sooner. Frankly, I don't know. I think there is scrutiny of Partner Stores to ensure the ones we have are delivering value for IBOs. I don't think it's planned to simply do away with all Partner Stores. That said, there is an increased marketing focus on core line products rather than PS/SFM/Options products. -- RL

ibofightback said:
Friday, August 31, 2007 #

Thanks for the quick reply, a busy week I'd imagine! Personally I think (and have said before) if they don't add value, get rid of 'em!

However - given the volume reportedly going through some of these stores, the corp. really should be able to do better deals with them and make them better value. That would require someone specialising in negotiating and renegotiating such deals though, and I gather that's never really been a focus.