e.rod. said:
Saturday, February 16, 2008 #

Hi Robin,

I think OZ has been a great tool for several IBOs to communicate to the corporation. Some bloggers are more responsive than others but I'm still appreciative for an outlet to let out my ideas and opinions.  Some success that seems to have come out of suggestions from IBOs through OZ include the addition of the Personal Accents link on the beautyzone personalized website, the improved posting of information on the What's New link on Quixtar (previously, things posted on OZ sooner than, if at all, on the Quixtar site), the improvement in the catalogs, and fixing of several bugs after the launch of the new Quixtar website last Oct/Nov. I really appreciate blogs like yours, Sales Speak and Code Review where you have all been very responsive to questions and comments. Some suggestions however regarding communications I'd like to see some type of response to. Please see my post on Inside Quixtar http://insidequixtar.opportunityzone.com/2008/01/03/How-many-choices-are-too-many.aspx#20945.  Overall, I think we should keep OZ. Please bring back someone though that can answer our questions about the Beauty industry and relate it back to our business in the BeautyTipsy blog.  That's it for now. Look forward to a response to my post on Inside Quixtar.

.

EDITOR'S NOTE: Thanks for the great message.  I'll bring your comments back to the team.  And a new Beauty Blogger is indeed a top priority!  -- RL

rdknyvr said:
Monday, February 18, 2008 #

Robin, you are doing a great job... people have commented on other blogs that OZ (along with IBOFightback's site) has set the benchmark for civility and tolerance of different perspectives, and responsiveness.

Perhaps more later when I've had more time to reflect.

But thanks to you and Beth and Susan and everyone else for a great year on OZ.!!!

glenn said:
Monday, February 18, 2008 #

ok so let me see If I get this straight. Sales in 1995 were 1.6 billion sales in 2007 were 1.1 billion. So after 12 years you have a gross dollar drop of 50%  -- now let's factor in inflation, huh  --- 3% inflation rate for the last 12 years would lead you to flat sales of 2.215 billion. That means no growth, no expansion that is just doing the same thing you did 12 years ago. So that real math shows sales are down 52% since this thing hit the internet. If you want to factor in the increased cost of the self consumption I would bet the total # of units moved has fallen off to just about 40% of the # moved in 1995. Keep up the good work and you won't have enough money to fund the rules department anymore.

If you want to dispute them I would like to see the real math. not the fuzzy math.

Take care and good luck to you.

glenn

rdknyvr said:
Tuesday, February 19, 2008 #

Glenn, go back to grade 6 arithmetic. This has been covered and discussed thoroughly on IBOFightback's site:

. http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/

.

You'll find excellent commentary and dialogue amongst current IBOs, former including TEAM, and many others. This very question was dealt with in detail over the past week. As a very simply starting point, in 1996 Corp sales were reported based on retail price assumed to the end consumer. Since then, they were changed to reflect actual sales. Year end change last year was also reported, and comparable period numbers provided.

Flat growth over recent years, and perhaps even some declining market share? Yes. And that's what 'Transformation' is changing to the delight and deep appreciation of those of us (vast majority) who aren't following a 'personality' but a sound business philosophy and model.

Ignorance is no excuse for posting uninformed opinions.

quixtar needs to fown said:
Wednesday, February 20, 2008 #

change the comp plan to a binary like everyother company and stop feeding the top dawgs.  give more back to hard working entrepenuers that are making their way up there.  the top earners make enough.  $200 bucks to the new person is much more of an incentive than the 10000 to a diamond.

glenn said:
Wednesday, February 20, 2008 #

rdknyvr,

At least I am willing to use my real name and not hide. Try it please.

Six grade math has nothing to do with overstating or inflating sales #'s - Math is math no matter how you spin it. Sales are flat and falling  -- getting worse all the time. I don't wish ill of anyone I just think the truth should be told.

People that lash out in anger and insults need to really look at what they are defending. Why have so many people left and lost fortunes if it is so good there? If the plan works so well why is it broken? If it works so well why has enrollement fallen of to next to nothing? If it is so great why is the rule book so thick? if it was so great you wouldn't need to force people to stay, they would want it .......

Like I said give me some proof  - not the fuzzy math you are refering to  -- then think about it for youself. Thinking is the beginning of problem resolution.

You should try it.

glenn

Bridgett said:
Thursday, February 21, 2008 #

QNTF,

.

One of the MAJOR reasons why Quixtar/Amway Global ROCKS compared to "every other company" is because it is NOT a binary comp plan.

.

A binary comp plan TOTALLY "feeds the top dawgs".

.

How can you include “entrepreneurs” and “binary comp plan” in the same paragraph?? They are complete opposites.

.

A binary plan is socialism at its finest.

.

You want to make $200 bucks in this biz? GO RETAIL a product. A $200 profit is a piece of cake, requiring very few customers and very few consumable products.

.

You’ve got HUNDREDS of products to choose from to focus on, and you’ve got HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people to sell to. Do the math.

.

Get your head out of the sponsoring, stacking, self-consumption, sand.

.

Do your MLM research. Look at the companies that have used a binary system and find out how long they stick around. Binary plans are a HOUSE OF CARDS.

.

And you’ve got the “top dawgs” who jump from one brand new sizzling hot  MLM to next brand new sizzling hot  one, raping and pillaging a new batch of people all along the way.

.

Pleeeaaaasssseee.

.

You too Glenn—your numbers are WRONG, as rdknyvr already pointed out.

.

Does anyone know math anymore??

Brad said:
Thursday, February 21, 2008 #

I know math.  I know that MLM's are a terrible way for an individual to build wealth.  Stop making 50 cents and hour "chasing your dreams" and "building up your business" and go back to college.  Use your time and skills to get a college degree.  Then, build some wealth the tried and true way.  MLM's are for suckers.

Desiree said:
Thursday, February 21, 2008 #

Wow, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that college  does not build wealth. There are definitely some positive aspects to college but using it as a source of wealth is not one of them and most people agree that is a fact.

Also, doesn't it make sense to use the most efficient and profitable business model to make money? Is there something noble in purposely   choosing a less effective way? The fact is that MLM is the most innovative way, just highly misunderstood by some. There is no mystery to the money (see the plan) and you absolutely cannot attain wealth through MLM without time and work - the tried and true way.

Maureen said:
Thursday, February 21, 2008 #

You go Bridgett... well put!

Bridgett said:
Friday, February 22, 2008 #

Robin,

The more I see “fly-bys”, the more I think having registered users would be helpful for OZ. And having the # of posts a person has made on OZ, next to their name on each of their posts.

This would:

#1 deter those that just what to fly on by and dump some crap along  their journey of life

and

#2 Give visitors (new and old) a quick snapshot of the Comment Poster--the number of posts would indicate the level of involvement (contributing, rather than just being voyeuristic) a Comment Poster has.

Registering doesn’t have to be mandatory, but an option. So if I see someone that isn’t registered, then that would tell me something about them.

Happy Friday! :)

rocket said:
Friday, February 22, 2008 #

Or, conversely Bridgett, one could quickly identify those who are hoping to cover up the "crap" with air freshener and wallpaper arguments.

Good idea, and it would help identify both factions of commenter's.

By the way, another year another million dollars?  

Toot Toot.

I'd like to see what the non profitable IBO's think about that comment.

Bridgett said:
Monday, February 25, 2008 #

rocket,

My comment was NOT about  allowing ONLY flowery comments about the Corp on OZ. If you've been paying attention to my comments on OZ for the last seven months, you know that a large number of my comments are far from flowery.

.

It's about understanding the MOTIVES of those who comment, that I'm interested in.

.

I think critics, like yourself, are valuable in pointing out areas in need of improvement.

.

And I also think, critics, like yourself, go beyond wanting to point out areas of improvement. It appears that you point out flaws, not to improve the business, but to destroy it.

.

You think this Corporation, this business opportunity, and all IBOs, are crap. I’m not here to convince you otherwise. That’s not my motive here at OZ.

glenn said:
Monday, February 25, 2008 #

bridgett,

Nobody thinks an IBO is "crap" as you put it. The only thing anybody is asking for is the truth. Open up your mind and heart and see both sides of the story ....... I have and I for one have seen both sides. I am sorry that my opinion differs from yours, I will always wish you well in your pursuits, I hope you are seeing the truth -- not looking through ruby colored glasses.

I for one have not slammed either side, I tried to share the truth and have been insulted, attacked and berated. Please ask yourself what you are defending so vigoriously .......... Is it transparent? are there more questions than answers? Are they and have they done everything to help you pursue your dreams and build the biggest and best for you? or do they toot there own horn and talk all about them and only them?

Ask questions, of yourself and them ......

By the way, by them, I mean both sides.

Good luck and take care.

Bridgett said:
Tuesday, February 26, 2008 #

glenn,

Who are "them"? I am not clear.

The Corp.?

Diamonds?

The Systems?

LOAs who resigned/were terminated?

.

I do not work in an us/them framework.

.

As I said in my last comment, my past comments here at OZ in the last eight months (it’s been since June 18, 2007 when I posted by first comment on Inside Quixtar—“It’s about a Transformation”) have NOT been “looking through ruby colored glasses”.

.

Go look at the harsh words I’ve had for the Corp and LOAs, glenn. In fact, I’ll make it easy for you and everyone else who’s interested in the inner workings of my brain, like y’all don’t have something better to do with your time…

.Go to any post. Then hit “ctrl” + “F”. When the Find box comes up, type in “Bridgett”. You will then be able to quickly see every post I’ve made on that thread.

.

I am an IBO was has been around awhile and I am acutely aware of the problems at the Corp. and in LOAs.

.

The two biggest criticisms that plaque this biz are 1) the products are not retailable 2) all the money made is in the selling of the BSMs (CDs, books, functions, etc.)

.

I finally see the Corp addressing these problems. I see LOAs addressing these problems. And I think it would be stupid to quit now (as well as the fact that I have a Q-12 Platinum leg and am making $$ in this biz, but if I weren’t, I’d still think it would be stupid to quit now).

.

The Corp is offering retailable products. Steve Lieberman (with much retail experience) has been brought on board. He is bringing on his team with similar experience and expertise.

.

The Corp has added $60 million dollars in incentives to IBOs at all levels. And these are volume incentives. Volume created primarily by retailing.

.

The Corp is offering (as well as some LOAs, I can only speak for my own) sales techniques. How to sell a product. What a concept!

.

The First Circle Initiative addresses the main two criticisms of this biz.

.

Diamonds who have perverted the authentic Amway/Quixtar Sales and Marketing Plan are being exposed.

.

Diamonds who are making the majority of their money by the sales of BSMs, yet using the Amway/Quixtar business opportunity to cover up these self-help/personal growth/leadership empires, are being exposed.

.

And these Diamonds are being given the opportunity to either change their ways or leave (either voluntarily or by force).

.

The Corp., in my opinion, was foolish for letting certain “issues” go on for so long.  I do not care what happens to all the IBOs who chose to leave because of the August events.

.

I do not care about all the current IBOs who continue to lack discernment on what BSMs to buy and what products to buy.

.

Contrary to what the former IBOs and the critics think, none of that affects my business or my success.

.

What DOES affect me and my business, is how the Corp will stay on top of things, so that this doesn’t happen again, as I commented on the Ada-tudes post from Feb 6th.

.

Ya know what would be helpful? If IBOs understood simple math. Maybe the brand new IBO is excused from understanding every nuance but for those who’ve been around for at least a year, they should know things like:

*What is the PV/BV ratio, why does it exist, and how does the cost of products affect it?

*What is the BV/Cost ratio?

*What is the Retail Mark-Up?

*What are FAA points, and how does this change the way a Diamond builds their business?

*How many legs do you need to be a Crown Ambassador? (There’s more than one answer, but for those who don’t understand the FAA points, they only think one, very arduous way).

.

Knowing simple math will help the IBO work smart, and build his/her business in the most PROFITABLE and SUSTAINABLE way.

.

Knowing simple math will help the IBO focus on the product lines that will return the most on their investment (yes SA8 laundry soap has a higher retail mark-up than XS Energy Drink. But your customers will buy more cases of XS in a year than they will SA8—especially if they are going to their parents house to do their laundry).

.

Knowing simple math will help the IBO identify when the Corp comes out with a product in which the PV/BV ratio makes no sense (1:1 ratio, your bonus check is less than what is shown in the Plan), or when the BV is inflated (thereby driving up the IBO Cost of the product), or when the retail mark-up is too high (and therefore the retail price is priced out of the market). And then you can NOT BUY OR SELL THE PRODUCT. It’s called “voting with your dollars”.

.

But if you have clueless IBOs, then how in the world can they be successful in this industry AND how can they give feedback/demand certain types of products, and certain ratios, and certain bonuses?

.

Too many people, for too long, have been sponsored in to a business that they know nothing about, and are not qualified to build—either a small retail biz nor a large networking biz.

Jeffrey said:
Tuesday, February 26, 2008 #

There are still countless Diamonds that are misleading people with standing-order-CDs and DVDs, and $140 functions that turn into $600 functions every 90 days when you figure in hotel stays, food, and gas. The problem is not so much with the cost compared to a conventional business. The problem is that it is WRONG teaching. It leads people into being dependent upon a system that just does not work. If it did work, everyone on the system would be Silver in 90 days and would be a Founders Diamond in 2 to 5 years. You do not need a major function every 90 days to get 20 customers, be a loyal self-user, and to sponsor 10 people to do the same. The tool and function scam needs to stop this year and until it does, this business will have a bad reputation, no matter how much transformation they do.

Ben said:
Tuesday, February 26, 2008 #

Glenn,

Like Bridgett said, you're bottom line motive is only to disparage the corporation. There's a difference from constructive criticism and being critical to put someone or a business down. Please don't patronize us by saying you only "want to share the truth".

The reason we defend this corporation is because we have had good and positive resuts from it. Its helped us in more ways than just making money (which it has with that also).

Good luck to you.

rocket said:
Wednesday, February 27, 2008 #

Ben & Bridgett

If the corporation isn't to blame, who is?

Who else could have done something about this?

Yes, I agree they are taking steps to resolve it now....reluctantly, in my opinion.  

When the sad truth about what's happening is plastered all over the internet and the British government is thinking of kicking you out of their business environment, it's amazing how quickly the corporation's civic virtues have risen to the top.

I'm glad for your alleged success, but it doesn't change the fact that the corporation is the only entity that could have done anything about this, and simply chose not to until they had no choice.

A double diamond just quit too, by the way.  Guess the lifetime of residual income wasn't worth hanging around for.  Wonder what the residuals would be for a little platinum?  About 1 in 200 achieve that level.  How hard could it be to renew every year and just collect the residuals?  Maybe the corp. kicked him out?  I dunno.  Point is, you SHOULD be able to find that out.

Nope, the corp. chooses to operate under a cloak of secrecy about certain things to this day.  Not good if this is "your" business.  You should be privy to everything.  OR, the corp. should say you are not privy to everything, they have secrets, and if you don't like it, too bad.  Instead of this faux aura of openness they are trying to convey.

Says more about the opportunity than it does about any singular person.

Bridgett said:
Wednesday, February 27, 2008 #

Jeffrey,

I agree with you that someone looking to develop 20 customers does not a “System”.

.

I partially agree with you that someone looking to duplicate themselves with 10 people who each have 20 customers, does not need ALL the bells and whistles of a System. I think you are describing a Platinumship. Yes?

.

But, if I want to develop multiple Platinumships and move on to Diamond and SUSTAIN and GROW a Diamondship, I do believe a System is necessary. Why? Because you are working with so many people, so many personalities, so many egos, so many opportunities for relational tensions and challenges and “issues”, that I believe a mentoring program is necessary—a program that is not solely reliant on me and my efforts and my wisdom (or lack of). :)

.

If I sponsor a brand new IBO, and they see it big from the get-go and Diamond is their goal, do I think that they need to be “plugged in to the System” immediately? No—not in the System’s current form.

.

Now if the System changes some of its focus from “Let’s all go Diamond!” to “Let’s make the First Circle work!” and helps IBOs market products and develop, MAINTAIN, and GROW, a customer base, then I think there is value in that System, even for the brand new IBO.

.

But I agree that getting someone to fly half-way across the country and spending a lot of time and money, being sold on the “Diamond Lifestyle” but not learning how to market a product, and not learning how to make immediate cash (through retailing)—in other words: making the First Circle profitable and worth duplicating—is like trying to teach an infant how to run, when they can’t even crawl yet.

Bridgett said:
Thursday, February 28, 2008 #

rocket,

Do you read my comments? Are they too long for you? Do just skim through them without actually reading?

.

Because your last comment, in which you address me, reveals your lack of either attention span or comprehension skills.

.

Everything you said, I have addressed (most recently in my Feb 26th comment).

.

So, what...is...your...point?

rocket said:
Thursday, February 28, 2008 #

Sorry Bridgett.

Didn't mean to include you in that.

Did you know a double diamond quit?  I guess the residuals at even that level aren't worth just renewing every year for.

You hang on to that platinum leg!

My apologies again for including you in my previous post.  

Jeffrey said:
Thursday, February 28, 2008 #

Everything about getting started right in this business can be put on one CD or DVD. Because, after you learn the basics, all you have to do is to repeat them over and over again. Besides, training should be done one-on-one at the new person's kitchen table by their sponsor or upline. If someone sponsors someone, then is "too busy" (when someone doesn't WANT to do something, they always claim to be "too busy") to train that person personally, then they shouldn't be sponsoring someone.

Then the group leader could hold a weekly or bi-weekly in-home meeting for Showing-The-Plan, product demos, and recognition with a local (read inexpensive) monthly local rally/mini-expo and the major function could be the annual convention. Anything more than that is fluff.

I am currently in the process of proving that building this business can be done WITHOUT a system. Get rid of them.  

Bridgett said:
Friday, February 29, 2008 #

Jeffrey,

Having a CD or a DVD IS a System.

Training you, who trains others,who trains others how to do one-on-one training IS a System.

Just not the kind of Systems that your favorite person with a gazillion FAA points currently has. :)

Yes?

Bridgett said:
Friday, February 29, 2008 #

rocket,

Yeah. I know he quit (was forced out). I can only speculate, so take it all with a grain of salt.

.

These are my thoughts/questions:

.

First, how much money was he really making from Quixtar/Amway?

.

1) Is double diamond his current pin level, or was this the top pin he ever hit?

.

2) What amount is his double diamond biz through Quixtar versus Amway Global?

There is a BIG difference in income a Diamond makes depending on what market the volume is generated. The North American market is by far the most profitable.

.

3) Is he double diamond with width (12 Platinum—not necessarily Q-12—legs) or with FAA points (14)

I’ve written before that unless I know the *structure* of one’s business, the pin tells me nothing about the amount of money that an IBOship is generating from Quixtar/Amway Global. There is a HUGE difference—we are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars—just at the Diamond level, let alone the Double Diamond level, based on width and depth structure AND whether you have 6-month Plats or 12-month Plats.

.

Second, given the fact the Corp is not putting up with these shenanigans anymore (BSM stuff), even if he was profitable now, his biz would all fall apart in due time, since his focus (and all his organization, right?) was more on his BSM biz than his Amway/Quixtar biz.

.

Third, how much money was he making with his BSM business? From what I’ve seen over time, my guess is A LOT. Far more than his Quixtar/Amway biz. If this is true, then I would imagine that the legal ramifications of this reality, the amount of cash he’d spend on being sued by Quixtar/Amway/Alticor would cost him much more—in money, in time, in headaches—than his Amway income is worth.

.

And finally, and most importantly, is he even entitled to that Amway/Quixtar income?

.

If he’s broken rules and if he’s broken laws, would he be entitled to that “residual” income?

.

I don’t think so. So “resigning” in IMHO is an extremely gentlemanly way of Amway letting him leave. Personally, and thank God for everybody, I wouldn’t be so nice.

.

But, again, let me say that this is ALL speculation and I don’t really know.

Ben said:
Friday, February 29, 2008 #

Read here about Fred Harteis. http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/index.php/content/view/8398/90/lang,en/

It's easy to say " a Double Diamond just quit" but there's a lot more to it than just saying that.

It's amazing to me how people who aren't even in this business can claim to be "experts".

Ben said:
Friday, February 29, 2008 #

Jeffrey,

I think what you're doing is awesome! I wish you all the best in building your business!

Eric Bell said:
Friday, February 29, 2008 #

Rocket,

  Do you have proof of why the double diamond quit?  I would like to know.

Canadian IBO 2 said:
Thursday, March 06, 2008 #

Bridgett,

I absolutely agree with you that the First Circle should be the initial focus of the systems.  Right now my business is focused on learning how to generate a customer base, building that customer base, and then teaching that to new IBO's.  Retailing was a very casual mention in my previous LOA.  Retailing is a daily focus in my present LOA.  The events last August seemed traumatic at the time, however, in retrospect, they were a blessing in disguise.